88s

[Ciaphas]

I think having to look for fight in a game where I pay to engage other players is a waste of time and money.

And taking out 88s is boring and not really worth my time. I don’t have the same problem with 37s or wirbs. They have shorter range and players don’t park in them.

“If everyone was doing this, would this game be any fun?” The answer for  88s is “No.”

With the current radar settings, finding a fight is simple. The hunt is part of the game and will always be a part of the game, unless Hitech puts in an "insta action" button that warps everyone within two sectors of each other. which by they way, would render 80% of this game irrelevant.

This game is a different beast depending on the times that you play, it can be 100 players online one hour and 30 players the next hour.

the bottom line is this: if a player enjoys manning 88's, let them man them. I enjoy bombers/heavy fighters and I fly them as much as tactically possible and there isn't a single person (other than Hitech) that will tell me that I can't. I also jump in an occasional 88 and 37's every now and again if the field I am at is getting stomped and we have a few fighters still in the air. in these situations, once the ENM is at 6k icon range, I tower and up a fighter.

Your dislike does not remove the tactical necessity of the any manned AAA.



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[icepac]

The complainers show up at 10k to a base without working radar and they expect people to up right under them.

Me?    I up at another base and catch you trying to make it home and then the complaints of "Vulch" ring out.

You can't win against these complainers even if you do shoot them down.

[Ciaphas]

The complainers show up at 10k to a base without working radar and they expect people to up right under them.

Me?    I up at another base and catch you trying to make it home and then the complaints of "Vulch" ring out.

You can't win against these complainers even if you do shoot them down.

Most of these complaints come from a one dimensional train of thought. This isn't a game based on fighters alone, hence the bombers, GV's, navy vessels, manned AAA, Logistics rides etc... .

It may have started out as a fighter only game but those days are long gone and have been so for a very very long time.

One will always be there to counter the other if used properly. That's just the nature of the beast.


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[DmonSlyr]

Yes you can. I've done it.  A quick run with a rocket or guns, and the manned ack is down.

Right, because you want to force everyone to play the way you want the game played. 

I wouldn't. I would rather not get shot down at all. But that's part of the game, whether it is computer AAA, or manned ack, or a wirble, or another airplane.

The same could be said if I get picked off by a 262 zooming in as I am lining up on my target.  It's all part of the risk you take when attacking a base.  If you don't like manned ack, kill the guns and be done with it.  I find killing manned ack much easier than killing a wirble or another plane.  It's all part of the game.

False #1. A Gunner can shoot your wing off before you even make it close enough to rocket or bomb. There's a waste of 10 minutes. What did the Gunner have to give up? 4 seconds of time... You don't even get the kill on the manned ack. What fun is that?

False#2.  Typical stupid argument. I want players to be in rides that are risky for them. Gunners aren't risky. Gunners don't have a life to defend. They get the kill. You don't. Who wants to fight a puff of smoke? One player should not have total advantage over the other.

AAA acks pick your plane apart slowely. Manned acks blow your plane apart in one ping. Puff acks can be aimed like snipers. Why why waste the time jaboing for a one ping blow up? At least you have a chance to get a bomb out with computer shooting. It also defends against any aimbot funny business. I see no benefit of manned acks to the game other than for CVs. Players should have to roll rides that provide risk.

False #3. A 262 means the other player has to risk his perks, and his plane, and his sortie, to be able to get the kill. A Gunner does not have to risk any of that. You think players can just come down and kill the guns, (which is also close to vulching) and get the manned guns. If the manned gun gets you before you can deploy rockets, than you've just wasted your time.

The game has become a ground game because they have been pushing for the minority of the gamers in AH, for some reason. Whether it be M3s resupply (very gamey) or a sniper puff ack (very gamey). These have done a great job of pissing off the bulk of the majority of type of gamers moreso than bring value to the overall game. Why reward players who present no risk at all, while negating someone else's long sortie? Whether it be bombers having their field they bombed resupplied instantly, or a Gunner ruin sorties instantly. They just do more to discourage the player base rather than help it.



 

[Ciaphas]

False #1. A Gunner can shoot your wing off before you even make it close enough to rocket or bomb. There's a waste of 10 minutes. What did the Gunner have to give up? 4 seconds of time... You don't even get the kill on the manned ack. What fun is that?

So, it's a waste of time to fly 10 minutes and meet an untimely death before you were able to release ords on your target? Sounds a lot like what buff drivers gripe about... .

False#2.  Typical stupid argument. I want players to be in rides that are risky for them. Gunners aren't risky. Gunners don't have a life to defend. They get the kill. You don't. Who wants to fight a puff of smoke? One player should not have total advantage over the other.

88's should have a perk value and the gunners death should be awarded to the dude who killed him.

AAA acks pick your plane apart slowely. Manned acks blow your plane apart in one ping. Puff acks can be aimed like snipers. Why why waste the time jaboing for a one ping blow up? At least you have a chance to get a bomb out with computer shooting. It also defends against any aimbot funny business. I see no benefit of manned acks to the game other than for CVs. Players should have to roll rides that provide risk.

That is the effect of having human intelligence controlling the guns and not an algorithm. The algorithm is a spray and pray method whereas the human is able to compensate and judge deflection and lead. So, there's that... .

False #3. A 262 means the other player has to risk his perks, and his plane, and his sortie, to be able to get the kill. A Gunner does not have to risk any of that. You think players can just come down and kill the guns, (which is also close to vulching) and get the manned guns. If the manned gun gets you before you can deploy rockets, than you've just wasted your time.

See my response for false 1 and 2.

Also, in what reality does a single WWII fighter or bomber have the ability to completely shut down AAA defending a target? Teamwork is the key to overcoming this situation and most complaints in these forums.

The game has become a ground game because they have been pushing for the minority of the gamers in AH, for some reason. Whether it be M3s resupply (very gamey) or a sniper puff ack (very gamey). These have done a great job of pissing off the bulk of the majority of type of gamers moreso than bring value to the overall game. Why reward players who present no risk at all, while negating someone else's long sortie? Whether it be bombers having their field they bombed resupplied instantly, or a Gunner ruin sorties instantly. They just do more to discourage the player base rather than help it.

This has not become a ground game, stop with the doomsday stuff. This is a very well rounded game. This game as it stands now is designed with teamwork at the forefront. Of course there will always be a lone wolf aspect but it comes with more risk. Sure there are things that could be tweaked a bit more to make it work a bit better for everyone but overall it's not as bad as some of you think it is. If you are constantly finding yourselves getting nuked by 88's I suggest a different ingress on your target and perhaps a different egress as well. Record a few sorties and watch how the gun is moving and learn it's grey and no go angles.

[DmonSlyr]

So, it's a waste of time to fly 10 minutes and meet an untimely death before you were able to release ords on your target? Sounds a lot like what buff drivers gripe about... .




88's should have a perk value and the gunners death should be awarded to the dude who killed him.


 

That is the effect of having human intelligence controlling the guns and not an algorithm. The algorithm is a spray and pray method whereas the human is able to compensate and judge deflection and lead. So, there's that... .


 

See my response for false 1 and 2.

Also, in what reality does a single WWII fighter or bomber have the ability to completely shut down AAA defending a target? Teamwork is the key to overcoming this situation and most complaints in these forums.


This has not become a ground game, stop with the doomsday stuff. This is a very well rounded game. This game as it stands now is designed with teamwork at the forefront. Of course there will always be a lone wolf aspect but it comes with more risk. Sure there are things that could be tweaked a bit more to make it work a bit better for everyone but overall it's not as bad as some of you think it is. If you are constantly finding yourselves getting nuked by 88's I suggest a different ingress on your target and perhaps a different egress as well. Record a few sorties and watch how the gun is moving and learn it's grey and no go angles.

A bomber cannot shut down the field guns in one pass. Therefore, a field gunner would have the advantage depending on alt of the bombers. Bombers or Jabo pilots should have to face a computer AAA over a manned ack. If a person Jabos or bombs a base and gets blown up before they can even drop, by a manned ack, that is a waste of time. If a person rolls a plane to attack the bombers or Jabos, than that is actual combat, atleast they have a chance to fight.

I agree that 88s and manned guns, along with M3 resupply, should be perked. That's a good idea.

The spray and pray method to computer ack is much better than manned ack. But I don't think puff ack needs to be on fighter or tank bases at all.

Someone said recently to make the towns further away to avoid bases being capped by fighters. This may work better than people's idea that manned guns stop vulching. manned guns simply end people's sortie on the spot. It's a nusance moreso than a control.

Teamwork is great if you can get the people to come and do as they are told. Most of the time that is challenging.

On your last point. There is a reason why the fighters # have declined further relative to other categories. This is the bread and butter for Aces High. Fighters. I know most people don't want to admit that, but it's the truth. Adding sniper puff ack to the fields doesn't help increase the fighter base. Making resupply too easy doesn't increase the fighter or bomber base. Competing with World of Tanks and IL2 + WT is very difficult. IMO, Hitech should stick to the fighter base bread and butter rather than punish them, while making the ground game easier to hurt air pilots. The decrease of the fighter base because of this and other issues is why the #s are lower today.

[Lusche]

On your last point. There is a reason why the fighters # have declined further relative to other categories.

They have?

[DmonSlyr]

They have?

Other categories would still go down because those people have left and don't participate in those categories anymore, but I believe more devout fighters have left the game than devout tankers. I'm pretty that was in your stats.

[pembquist]

Like I said before there are two ends of the 88's irritation spectrum ranging from zero to "I'm resigning my account." I think the players who are saying 88's aren't a problem etc. etc. are missing the big difference between manned guns and manned machines. Time invested. As much as people want to pretend that this is a contest of sociopaths or some kind of war this game is in reality a game and as such is about social relationship. This is why flying against people is more enjoyable than flying against a computer. What happens with the 88 is that since the gunner has no investment in terms of time having driven or flown they come across as non participants and kind of obnoxious. Clearly when a base is being overrun this doesn't apply but in most other cases it does. I am not saying that people who man these guns are passive aggressive griefers but I am saying that that is what it often feels like. The problem specific to the 88 is that it's range inflicts the presence of the gunner way out where he probably shouldn't be a participant. It is like he keeps butting in where no one wants him. My question is how many people would care if they just went away? (The guns not the people.)  I think they are a nice idea but when there are 50 people on that idea isn't really being instantiated.

[icepac]

Most of these complaints come from a one dimensional train of thought. This isn't a game based on fighters alone, hence the bombers, GV's, navy vessels, manned AAA, Logistics rides etc... .

It may have started out as a fighter only game but those days are long gone and have been so for a very very long time.

One will always be there to counter the other if used properly. That's just the nature of the beast.


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Absolutely right.   

They can't be bothered to change up the same stale mission profile they have been playing for 15 years so they want the game designers to change the game to make said stale missions fun again.

If you're bored........then you're boring.

[Ciaphas]

Like I said before there are two ends of the 88's irritation spectrum ranging from zero to "I'm resigning my account." I think the players who are saying 88's aren't a problem etc. etc. are missing the big difference between manned guns and manned machines. Time invested. As much as people want to pretend that this is a contest of sociopaths or some kind of war this game is in reality a game and as such is about social relationship. This is why flying against people is more enjoyable than flying against a computer. What happens with the 88 is that since the gunner has no investment in terms of time having driven or flown they come across as non participants and kind of obnoxious. Clearly when a base is being overrun this doesn't apply but in most other cases it does. I am not saying that people who man these guns are passive aggressive griefers but I am saying that that is what it often feels like. The problem specific to the 88 is that it's range inflicts the presence of the gunner way out where he probably shouldn't be a participant. It is like he keeps butting in where no one wants him. My question is how many people would care if they just went away? (The guns not the people.)  I think they are a nice idea but when there are 50 people on that idea isn't really being instantiated.

88's are machines

This whole "time invested" ideology is nothing more than an individual projection of what you consider to be quality time invested. It varies player to player.

How the player gets to a base to defend makes little difference. The fact that someone is defending the base is all that matters.

As has already been stated a dozen times, there is always a risk when you up and fly to an enemy target. like it or leave it, it is what it is.

however, I do think that Hitech should add risk for the manned AAA. perk the positions, award kills to the victor (both gun emplacement and player). seriously limit the amount of shells that the 88 holds and maybe slow the reload speed a titch.



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[ccvi]

The spray and pray method to computer ack is much better than manned ack.

Auto ack is random? For me it always seemed to start of random, and the longer I stay within range the better it adjusts it's fire on a prediction assuming constant acceleration. Initially it's more difficult to evade (because it's random - something can hit randomly regardless of any evasive maneuvers) and later on when it has zeroed in changing the lift vector sufficiently often (compared to the flight time of the bullets) it's easier to not get hit.

The 88 at their typical range are a none issue. Flight time of the shells is so long that fighters can evade easily. Of course, not while trying to preserve every little fraction of a Joule of energy needed as advantage over others.

[Ciaphas]

Auto ack is random? For me it always seemed to start of random, and the longer I stay within range the better it adjusts it's fire on a prediction assuming constant acceleration. Initially it's more difficult to evade (because it's random - something can hit randomly regardless of any evasive maneuvers) and later on when it has zeroed in changing the lift vector sufficiently often (compared to the flight time of the bullets) it's easier to not get hit.

The Auto AAA is lethal when several AAA guns converge on a target. This is achieved by multiple guns tracking you to a single point.

A human controlled AAA can adjust for lead better because Hitech doesn't have the new lazer AAA models yet.

 





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[BuckShot]

Manned ack are just gvs without wheels or tracks.

Blow them up or leave them alone.

[Devil 505]

I agree with kills of occupied manned guns counting as a player kill just like any other kill.

There several other issues with manned guns and also with mobile AAA also raised in this thread. I think a 1-2 minute spawn penalty should be applied to a recently killed operator of any AAA item attempting to take another one from the same base. Planes and battle tanks should be instantly available, but not AAA.