Another 737 down

[ACE]

No, that would be silly because  A) if there was no fuel getting to the FCU it would not start at all and  B) before they even attempted to start the crew would have gotten a MASTER WARNING light and a FUEL PRESS LOW annunciation light on the panel.

Hung starts and failures to spool up on turbines is usually an air issue, like any of the air sensing lines to the FCU has a leak or obstruction, or a sticky/malfunctioning PRBC valve.  Less likely is a fault in the FCU itself, or somebody screwed up a fuel trim, even less likely (but possible) is a rigging issue.


A ha.  Here you get to the issue.  You are arguing with people who have thousands of hours of training, and decades of experience in a very specialized field, you admit you have none.  Yet, you think you are right and they are wrong.


Stating as you did that you can "fix anything in front of me with just a schematic" is not confidence, it's over-confidence or arrogance. That kind of attitude in aviation maintenance is very dangerous, even deadly.

Bluntly put.  You don't know enough to even realize how much you don't know.

Thank you for the education in the first paragraphs.

It’s not a matter of whose right and whose wrong. It’s about doing the right thing. Again you’ve taken me way out of context. You even ended your assumption of me with an insult that’s typical online behavior when things don’t go your way.

Sorry you mistake confidence as arrogance that’s your issue not mine. My father instilled in me to be able to do and fix things on my own without the help of others. So yes I firmly believe as anyone who works on things for a living should, that I can fix or at least tell you what is wrong with the equipment in front of me. That is not arrogance. Arrogance is saying I’m the best I have not once said that nor ever will.

[Vraciu]

"Former Boeing Engineers Say Relentless Cost-Cutting Sacrificed Safety
The failures of the 737 Max appear to be the result of an emphasis on speed, cost, and above all shareholder value."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Agenda-driven axe-grinding by someone wanting to play the whistleblower who didn't.

[Busher]

Thank you for the education in the first paragraphs.

It’s not a matter of whose right and whose wrong. It’s about doing the right thing. Again you’ve taken me way out of context. You even ended your assumption of me with an insult that’s typical online behavior when things don’t go your way.

Sorry you mistake confidence as arrogance that’s your issue not mine. My father instilled in me to be able to do and fix things on my own without the help of others. So yes I firmly believe as anyone who works on things for a living should, that I can fix or at least tell you what is wrong with the equipment in front of me. That is not arrogance. Arrogance is saying I’m the best I have not once said that nor ever will.

And as Charles Darwin said "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

[ACE]

And as Charles Darwin said "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

I can post useless quotes too?

[Oldman731]

If you'll excuse me, I have to go to Sloan Kettering in New York and critique their brain cancer surgery. Because I read all about how to do it in the NY Times. They have great medical reporters.

Hey, I've done that!  There are a couple of Youtube videos, too.  Easier than you'd think, but your fingers get wet and the guy moves around quite a bit and makes loud noises as you work.  Can be distracting until you've done it a few times.

Would you folks lighten up just a bit?  We all get that the pilots could have done better, that the maintenance might have been the initial problem (I called that!), but there's also an issue with the software and the warnings about it.  Nothing wrong about discussing that.

We're all friends here.  Let's try to keep it that way, OK?

- oldman

[Puma44]

That’s a very subjective opinion.

As is “more than half the country”.

[ACE]

Hey, I've done that!  There are a couple of Youtube videos, too.  Easier than you'd think, but your fingers get wet and the guy moves around quite a bit and makes loud noises as you work.  Can be distracting until you've done it a few times.

Would you folks lighten up just a bit?  We all get that the pilots could have done better, that the maintenance might have been the initial problem (I called that!), but there's also an issue with the software and the warnings about it.  Nothing wrong about discussing that.

We're all friends here.  Let's try to keep it that way, OK?

- oldman

Yep. Problems all up the chain. Yet industry guys want to solely blame the pilots and maintenance lol.

[FLS]

Yep. Problems all up the chain. Yet industry guys want to solely blame the pilots and maintenance lol.

You're saying the people who know how it works blame the people who screwed up.   

An interesting statistic would be how many times the MAX has had a bad AOA sensor without crashing.

[Vraciu]

You're saying the people who know how it works blame the people who screwed up.   

An interesting statistic would be how many times the MAX has had a bad AOA sensor without crashing.

Indeed.   

The plane was flyable.   Had the crew shown the most basic levels of airmanship they would have been able to save the day.   Instead, we have two guys put into a situation that was over their heads because “This is Africa.”

[Busher]

You're saying the people who know how it works blame the people who screwed up.   

An interesting statistic would be how many times the MAX has had a bad AOA sensor without crashing.

Reviewing all previous posts, I think its fair to say that all the professional airmen who have posted in this string, are offering (maybe arguing) a counterpoint to the already-drawn conclusion that MCAS crashed the 737's - that there was nothing the pilots could do; all were doomed.
You may recall the detailed and complex investigation of TWA 800. All indications pointed to a bomb but the NTSB who are expert in investigation without bias, ultimately helped to make the 747 a safer airplane.
I believe, due the location, the NTSB only has observer status in these two accidents, so I remain convinced that the truth of all contributing factors will never be published,

[Vraciu]

Reviewing all previous posts, I think its fair to say that all the professional airmen who have posted in this string, are offering (maybe arguing) a counterpoint to the already-drawn conclusion that MCAS crashed the 737's - that there was nothing the pilots could do; all were doomed.
You may recall the detailed and complex investigation of TWA 800. All indications pointed to a bomb but the NTSB who are expert in investigation without bias, ultimately helped to make the 747 a safer airplane.
I believe, due the location, the NTSB only has observer status in these two accidents, so I remain convinced that the truth of all contributing factors will never be published,

Correct.   The professionals (in the previously locked thread) asked that people refrain from speculating at least until the bodies had reached room temperature.    But the resident experts (like the OP) decided to run wild with one-sided speculation.   Thus the professionals offered a dose of reality despite the fact that we preferred letting the investigators do their job first.

[SysError]

I believe, due the location, the NTSB only has observer status in these two accidents, so I remain convinced that the truth of all contributing factors will never be published,

Is it BEA - French accident investigator - that has the lead? 

Have they done stuff in the past that concerns you?

[Puma44]

I believe, due the location, the NTSB only has observer status in these two accidents, so I remain convinced that the truth of all contributing factors will never be published,

Agree.  That will be the additional tragedy to these two incidents.

[Toad]

I believe, due the location, the NTSB only has observer status in these two accidents, so I remain convinced that the truth of all contributing factors will never be published,

Totally agree.

This is a political hit job. Easier to blame Boeing than to address an institutional disregard for proper maintenance procedures and proper pilot selection and training.

the already-drawn conclusion that MCAS crashed the 737's - that there was nothing the pilots could do; all were doomed.

Which of course is easily disproved by the fact that the same Lion Air aircraft had the same AOA problem the previous day and was successfully flown to landing because an EXPERIENCED pilot knew exactly what to do.

So all the blather about doomed by MCAS, faulty computer programs and lack of a (optional...but hey, CHEAP is the middle name of airline management)  PFD AOA display is just that....blather that is, at best, very, very far down in the list of causal factors.

Not that the FINAL would ever dare admit that fact of course.

[Shuffler]

I can post useless quotes too?

They are only useless if you do not understand them.