Question for real pilots

[Animl-AW]

I’m not, I wish I would have stuck with it.

Is nose bounce a natural occurrence in RL?

I have to dumb my stick down so much to calm it down that it becomes useless. I’ve had this issue since day 1 (2000) with both sticks I’ve used.

[LilMak]

No. Only if you’re over controlling the aircraft or running through turbulence. Scaling is the only way to beat it out of AH.

[Puma44]

Only if the elevator is out of trim.  Then, a PIO (or nose bounce) can occur.

[Skyyr]

On most aircraft, no. You can get pilot-induced oscillations (PIO) that feel like nose-bounce; but those are uncommon in most prop planes unless it lacks positive stability or is out of trim.

[LilMak]

Only if the elevator is out of trim.  Then, a PIO (or nose bounce) can occur.

AH has GIO (game induced oscillations). I actually think it’s intentional.

Toggling combat trim in game can help in some cases because you’re fighting combat trim which is constantly changing while you’re changing speeds. But unlike real planes where you can “feel” your plane is out of trim as much as see it, it’s less so in game.

[Puma44]

AH has GIO (game induced oscillations). I actually think it’s intentional.

Toggling combat trim in game can help in some cases because you’re fighting combat trim which is constantly changing while you’re changing speeds. But unlike real planes where you can “feel” your plane is out of trim as much as see it, it’s less so in game.

Agree, and it’s quite frustrating to have an unrealistic feel built in.  Bad enough with computer lag.  When I’m having an unusually “bumpy” day, trimming nose down and holding the nose in place helps to somewhat alleviate the nose bump issue.

No. Only if you’re over controlling the aircraft or running through turbulence. Scaling is the only way to beat it out of AH.

I’ve tried scaling several times with no real solution for my ham fists.  What’s your favorite scaling?

[Vraciu]

The nose bounce in AH is unlike anything I've ever experienced in over 36 years of flying from light pistons to big radials, light attack jet (not as a military pilot just to be clear) to heavy jet.  I do not recall it in WBs either.   It has long been one of the most annoying and frustrating aspects of the AH FM.

Switching from a MS SW to a VKB mellowed it a little, but it is definitely there.

[LilMak]

Agree, and it’s quite frustrating to have an unrealistic feel built in.  Bad enough with computer lag.  When I’m having an unusually “bumpy” day, trimming nose down and holding the nose in place helps to somewhat alleviate the nose bump issue.

I’ve tried scaling several times with no real solution for my ham fists.  What’s your favorite scaling?

My scaling has changed over the years and mostly stick dependent. It’s been so long since I’ve messed with it that I can’t give you any real advice. I know there are entire threads about it somewhere on the boards here. I remember my X52 it was probably the best stick I had. It was so accurate all I did was adjust the tiniest bit of deadband. I currently have a tired T16000 and it has spikes which requires more deadband a quite a bit of dampening to counteract the spikes it has. And it still gets me when I’m on the edge of stalls.

[Eagler]

I don't think I  get nose bounce with my warthog ... the stick is set to 100% across the board

RL and gamer pilot question..

When you are in a rope climb do you trim?

If so which way(s)?

Thanks Eagler ✌️

[Tumor]

I’m not, I wish I would have stuck with it.

Is nose bounce a natural occurrence in RL?

I have to dumb my stick down so much to calm it down that it becomes useless. I’ve had this issue since day 1 (2000) with both sticks I’ve used.

I think I remember Levi stating he never noticed any nose-bounce, at all.  He's the ~only~ player I recall ever making such a statement. I can't remember if it was an in-game chat, here in the forums or VOX.  That said, this was before the Spit-V got nerfed and I didn't have the experience in it to compare.  I figure he was secretly blind and using The Force, but could be he knew something nobody else knew.  JMHO.

I don't think you can beat it... you can only calm it down.  That was my experience because, boy howdy I tried.

[Animl-AW]

Thanks everyone.

Great input.

I used to manually adjust trim years ago. It was a sub-conscience habit of muscle memory.
I’ll need to reprogram some buttons to set a rocker button to do that.

Today I’ve just been toggling CT, which by the sound of it isn’t cutting it. I guess I’ve gotten lazy.

I have a 16 yr old x52 that is seriously worn out. I’ve got scaling, dead bands and dampening about as good as it can be. There is still insane over steering the closer I get to center trying to hold a precise shot. Which makes me lose my eva luvin mind. I’ve even slapped it off the mount so pisssed I missed a sure kill shot.

Maybe it was my trimming yrs ago. I could pick where I wanted to hit the target AC. Today its a spray and pray thing.

The fact mentioned that CT is constantly correcting has got to be it. Makes sense to explain over-steering.

[Puma44]

I don't think I  get nose bounce with my warthog ... the stick is set to 100% across the board

RL and gamer pilot question..

When you are in a rope climb do you trim?

If so which way(s)?

Thanks Eagler ✌️

I’ll try the 100% on my warthog.

In game, I tend to use flaps for better turn performance and leave trimming to the fight approach when trimming nose down for “bump” dampening.

Ref the RL question, the F-15 has an auto trim system the takes load off the controls wherever the pilot places the stick.  Safe to assume the same with the F-16, and follow on shiny new jets.  In both the F-106 and F-4, there was 3,000 psi hydraulic pressure helping the effort so, no real trimming was needed in a dogfight.  Trim was mostly used in formation air refueling, instrument approaches, etc where a light touch was required.

In the F-4, I was taught in Korea to drop the first notch of flaps when going up in the vertical with full AB selected chasing the other guy.  Then, stay tucked in close in his deep six and force him to keep going vertical, bleeding speed, and trying to see where  I was.  Eventually, his airspeed would be pegged and he would start rolling to see where I was, lose lift, and roll off, nose down in AB to regain flying speed. With my flaps already out, there was more controllable nose authority, allowing me to bring an AIM-9 to bear, and send one (simulated of course) up his tailpipes. 

The F-106 had elevons (no flaps).  So, every approach was a single engine, no flap event.  With the huge delta wing, a “Six” could produce one spectacular bat turn.  Then, it was nose down in full AB to regain speed, which it did expeditiously.  The “ Six” did fast, very well.

Flying Crazy Horse 2 several times, the first notch of flaps produces the best turn rate assistance without bleeding a lot of speed.  The Mustang requires constant manual trim in all three axis as flight conditions change. Definitely flys nicer when trimmed up.

Ahhhhh, such fun memories.

[Oldman731]

I think I remember Levi stating he never noticed any nose-bounce, at all.  He's the ~only~ player I recall ever making such a statement.

I don't get nose bounce.  Very old CH Fighterstick.

- oldman

[BigR]

no nose bounce for me ...old CH FighterStick. I do use a bit of dampening because i used to have trouble with "dont move your controls rapidly".

Overall i have found that a bit of scaling and dampening has improved my issues with pulling on the stick as I fire which was causing mini movements. I have never noticed nose bounce at all though. 

[RichardDarkwood]

Thanks everyone.

Great input.

I used to manually adjust trim years ago. It was a sub-conscience habit of muscle memory.
I’ll need to reprogram some buttons to set a rocker button to do that.

Today I’ve just been toggling CT, which by the sound of it isn’t cutting it. I guess I’ve gotten lazy.

I have a 16 yr old x52 that is seriously worn out. I’ve got scaling, dead bands and dampening about as good as it can be. There is still insane over steering the closer I get to center trying to hold a precise shot. Which makes me lose my eva luvin mind. I’ve even slapped it off the mount so pisssed I missed a sure kill shot.

Maybe it was my trimming yrs ago. I could pick where I wanted to hit the target AC. Today its a spray and pray thing.

The fact mentioned that CT is constantly correcting has got to be it. Makes sense to explain over-steering.

So crazy that there is one setting for the entire game to cover all the aircraft