Author Topic: Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read  (Read 2570 times)

Offline Superfly

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2002, 04:47:01 PM »
It might be Wilbus.  I can't remember.  It was definitely within a week of the 1.05 release.
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Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2002, 05:12:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
let me change my mind on a couple of things after a good 2 hours or so screwing with it

The terrain is damn good ....

the 1 st map i flew on I dunno why didn't look as good as the bob terrain.

In full real, trim ,cockpit view only it was fun its a competent fm and compares well with most other modern games.

I was impressed with how u needed to keep on trim to keep it flying clean. I don't no how "real" this" is and I'm not a pilot or have I flown a real ww2 bird. The planes have a tendency to yaw (109s any way).

The tracers, and cockpits fov are bad imho is there any talk of changing these?

I would be only interested in a "full real room" and suspect it would be a lonely place. The biggest draw to fa as I have seen in the past is the arcade arenas which theres nothing wrong with that if you prefer it. In ah we have nearly a 400 folks in 1 arena and all though there are arguable some arcadish things (this is true about all computer flight games) I'd rather fighter a 109 in my 190 they cruise around like wonder woman. :)

I prefer the external look of ah planes over fa's they look "cartoonish" thats not a knock on fa so does il2 to a degree.

However its a real improvement over fa2 and I can see where you guys would be happy.

I fly ah and wb3 and il2 and prefer ah overall. However arena play has me burned out bigtime and a arcade room has no appeal to me at all.

Enjoy your game. I prefer vanilla ice cream,  you like chocolate and neither of us are wrong.


Thank you wotan - I don't expect you to suddenly close your account and move over to FA or indeed any of you, but it's nice to see someone actually taking the time to look at it properly and fairly, with an open mind.

The reason for the yaw in the 109s is that there was no rudder trim in the 109s up to the late G and K models and are modelled as such in the game.

I think it will be interesting to see how the player numbers do develop in the future - in FA2, the most popular phsyics were intermediate, but I think in FA3, they might divide evenly between arcade and advanced.

The cockpit fov doesn't look like it's going to change. This does seem to be an AH-specific request. FA advanced players of old don't seem to have a problem with it.

The problem with FOV is the focus thing. If you look straight ahead and pick the edge of your focussed vision, it will give you a FOV of around 45 degrees (as modelled in FA). However if you include your peripheral vision, which is not in focus (and actually in black and white IRL - peripheral vision does not pick up colour, fact fans), then it expands to about 60 degrees or so (which seems to be roughly what you have in AH). However in AH, you have perfect vision and clarity throughout the 60 degree FOV.

You decide which is more realistic...(well - you have obviously :) )

As I say, I'm not expecting any of you will leave this game. This is where your mates are and where you are most comfortable.

But I think it is good for both our games to know what each other is up to...kinda raises the bar and hopefully the players all benefit as a result.

Awra best,

Offline Wotan

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2002, 05:20:38 PM »
Quote
The reason for the yaw in the 109s is that there was no rudder trim in the 109s up to the late G and K models and are modelled as such in the game.


Yeah i figured that out....:)

this might be one of the first to actually model trim this way and its a good thing imho. Even il2 allows rudder trim in 109s.

I haven't noticed the effect of the wing slots on the 109s in realistic. Has this been brought up?

Offline mrsid2

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2002, 05:59:51 PM »
I downloaded FA3 and tried it out..

First thing that pointed out was how easy planes started to climb.. They require almost no runway to takeoff.

Second as I got into air, I noticed how jumpy the controls were.. Regardless of speed the ac seemed to bounce around like it was floating in air, hanging from a balloon.

It was possible to pull huge g's without blackout and stalls were very mild compared to AH snap stalls.

Textures looked nice from outside view, but looking at wings from inside was no sight for sore eyes. Cockpit in general was horrid, made me feel claustrofobic. Gauges were not visible in normal front view..

Land textures became choppy on fast turns.. Some tearing was also noticeable (ran it on geforce3)

All in all, it has some nice eye-candy features over AH but I still lik e AH FM much more. I'll have to do more testing to give a final verdict.

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2002, 05:59:54 PM »
All the planes have their historical trims.

As you will be able to see in-game, the slots are modelled and they do work, it's not just a visual thing. (So too are cowl and radiator flaps and engine temperature, incidentally.)

However there is still a small debate about exactly how the slots worked in real-life. Obviously they worked at take-off and landing, but the question is whether the change of AoA in an accelerated stall would cause the spring to pop at other times. This seems to be a difficult one to pin down historically and as a result we're basing it pretty much on theory.

At the moment, the last time I checked, I think we had them kicking in during accelerated stalls (as the changing AoA would cause a sufficient pressure drop to allow the slots spring to be activated.) However it is possible that even an oblique wind force of sufficient strength may been enough to keep the slots from activating.

If you know of any sources that state differently, I would be genuinely very interested as I have run out of books and web searches trying to track something definitive down.

Offline Raubvogel

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2002, 06:15:12 PM »
Who are you trying to kid Smoo? You and I both know that the real rooms will be empty 90% of the time. Even when there are folks in there, the numbers will never even approach 100. We have 400 in a real arena everyday. Graphics do not make a game. You can't polish a turd.

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2002, 06:55:18 PM »
We'll see, Raub. You could well be right, but the early signs are that you won't be.

The introduction of an advanced FFA room (finally!) has given many of the arcade fliers a chance to try full real in a quick down and dirty environment which has let them get used to dogfighting in full real physics and coping with the restricted views. This has had a huge effect. It has made full-real accessible at last.

Long-time arcade fliers like LSA and Majorflex and BBKing - who wouldn't even have been seen in an intermediate room! - are now regulars in advanced.

You're absolutely right though - full-real was virtually empty which is why I would never bother flying there much.

Now I will always choose advanced over anything else given the choice, and I find many, many more are doing likewise. The numbers are rising exponentially as a result. It just required something to get the ball rolling.

As well as the AFFA room, the main reason, I think, is that intermediate is now closer to semi-real than it was, with many of the drawbacks of full-real, but few of the advantages, so players may as well just fly in full real and enjoy the maximum potential of the modelling.

I think there will still be a large arcade crowd - and there has to be for FA to survive IMO - but I genuinely think it will be matched by the number of full real players, and intermediate will be the ones less populated.

At least that's how it's looking at the moment...

Offline Karnak

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2002, 08:07:04 PM »
The charts at this location http://fighter-ace.propfighter.com/FA3/Secrets/charts.htm have the Spit XIV listed with a sea level speed that is 12mph too fast and I note that the Fw190D-9 lacks the MW50 boost and therefore has a sea level speed far below where it should be.
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Offline Karnak

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #98 on: January 21, 2002, 09:22:18 PM »
Well, I bothered to redownload this POS (12 times the size of the AH download) and nothing has changed.

You still have absolutely horrid graphics from within the cockpit.  Look out over the wing of a Mosquito for example.  It looks horrid in comparison with AH.  In both the Spitfire XIV and the Mosquito VI the canopy structure was highly distorted and you had your face pressed against it.  This made the instruments unusable.  It also made it very claustraphobic.  It felt like SA would either be greatly hampered, or nigh impossible.

The FM felt "bouncy", but I'd have to fly it for quite a bit before I could really say yea or nay to the FM.
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Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2002, 09:38:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
The charts at this location http://fighter-ace.propfighter.com/FA3/Secrets/charts.htm have the Spit XIV listed with a sea level speed that is 12mph too fast and I note that the Fw190D-9 lacks the MW50 boost and therefore has a sea level speed far below where it should be.


SL speed for Spit XIV according to my references (Spitfire by Stewart Wilson, Sovereign Press) is 375mph. The Spit XIV is tweaked in the next version as the fuel capacity was wrong and the flight model has been changed accordingly. The Spit XIV in your build however does 369mph at SL, 6 mph too slow. Where di you get your figure of 357mph from?

The Fw190 D9 does not lack MW50. It has it. A bug at the time of performance testing meant it wasn't working properly at SL, however it was fine at all other alts. It does mean the SL speed is coming in low until the WEP bug is fixed.

I honestly don't understand the problems you seemed to have with the canopy (???) or the cockpit instruments, unless it's another FOV issue.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2002, 09:45:03 PM by SmooMonster »

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #100 on: January 21, 2002, 10:22:25 PM »
in ah my squaddie ag ex fa2 PG_AG/Sturm is in the fa3 beta or was (i dont know if he still flies there). Bradys5 ex fa2 PG_Bradys until recently was in my squad in ah as well. I flew fa2 for a nit. Naudet flies ah hes ex fa2. Theres a ton of guys in here who flew fa.

Most of the folks that are in ah have flown most flight games out there.

Most of us know what fa gameplay is like. While fa3 is an improvement most of the ex fa guys have no plans of moving back there.

I checked your news group and it seems the original poster of this thread takes pride in his troll. Smoo you seem to take some pride in it as well.

One guy even suggested that an ljk was a cheater in fa. When I was in fa I flew against ljk guys in trukks mini wars and from what I know of umm here they are first class in what ever they do.

My point here is too address the original topic. I dont know who from ah is trollin on your newsgroup and I dont care.

But he probrably actually flew fa3. Unlike some of the folks over there that start a comment with "I never flew AH...."

Its also pretty lame to troll at 1 board then run to another with the "look what a good troll I am".

ps
I just wanted to be 100 :)

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #101 on: January 21, 2002, 11:22:36 PM »
My last post to the FA ng was ...

"They're not a bad bunch, and it never really dissolved into
serious name-calling which was quite refreshing."

I think the LJK thing was a case of mistaken identity and apologies have been made.

I don't consider anything I've written a troll. I've been teasing sometimes and had fun exchanging views with you people, hence any lols. I do the same with people on our own ng.

I don't think I have insulted your game at any time - there are a few things I don't get and different perceptions of reality.

I definitely think FA3 is prettier but everything else is more a case of what you are used to.

Say hi to Naudet for me - we used to wing together a lot when we were squaddies in GDI. I've never known a finer wingman.

And give my regards to the PG boys too - I take it they're still B n Z'ing at 500 mph? :)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #102 on: January 21, 2002, 11:30:58 PM »
SmooMonster,

The RAF and Supermarine tests all find speeds of 357mph to 363mph at sea level for the MkXIV.

You can read several Spitfire reports here: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html

I would highly reccommend the book:

Spitfire, The History
By Eric B. Morgan and Edward Shacklady


If there is one aircraft that I am familiar with, it is the Spitfire MkXIV.  You may have numbers using the 150 octane fuel that was used to boost performance for anti-V1 operations.  150 octane fuel was not used for normal operations.
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Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #103 on: January 22, 2002, 02:28:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
SmooMonster,

The RAF and Supermarine tests all find speeds of 357mph to 363mph at sea level for the MkXIV.

You can read several Spitfire reports here: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html

I would highly reccommend the book:

Spitfire, The History
By Eric B. Morgan and Edward Shacklady


If there is one aircraft that I am familiar with, it is the Spitfire MkXIV.  You may have numbers using the 150 octane fuel that was used to boost performance for anti-V1 operations.  150 octane fuel was not used for normal operations.


The test report put the SL speed at between 363 TAS at SL to 374 at 2000ft... in which case I'll put the 369 I recorded down to my testing procedures (testing 80 planes meant I got a little slack and sometimes didn't go all the way down to SL for the SL tests, and the ground may have been 800-1200ft high where I was testing...)

Mea culpa

Offline K West

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #104 on: January 22, 2002, 08:17:06 AM »
"I checked your news group and it seems the original poster of this thread takes pride in his troll. Smoo you seem to take some pride in it as well."

 lol. That sounds familiar. Saw the same when the last group of  "A__, ... oh wait.  These guys were from Fighter Ace?  My 'bad'!

 Thought you were talking about a group from another (ex)game who's "MO' was the same.

 Westy