Author Topic: Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read  (Read 2986 times)

Offline Am0n

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2002, 08:49:43 AM »
Ok i got FA3 downloaded last night and checked it out.. I'll have to hold most of my comments since it is obviously still in beta, the sounds and firing sprites are enough to realize that.

But the so called "3d cockpit veiw" is absolutely horrible. It apears that in FA3 that your pilot is sitting with his chin 3 inches from the aim-point. It was enough to detour me from further analizing this. That is one of the huge advantages that AH has over many other so called MMOLFS.

The cock-pit veiw in AH is great, although i do agree that the panel apears to be VERY 2D. But AH's POV is that of a someone driving and not the typical (FA3 for example) "3d shooter" veiw a lot of flight-sims seems seem to fancy.

The terrain currently in FA3 is very nice, i dont think its even questionable.

Graphicly FA3 is superior, mainly the attention to detail such as the shell casing perjecting from the ejection chambers of the fire-arms. I will wait until ive played online to further judge this because i was flying alone high in the sky and getting constant freezing, even @ 20-30 FPS.

I was kind of disturb that if you go off the runway into the "grass" you nearly ALWAYS wreck and/or smack your cowl on the ground. This is very historical in-correct.

As i previously stated i'll hold my other comments on the kiddie FM's and other aspect until i play it out of beta and online (or with full realism). But If the 3d cock-pit veiw stays as it is, i wont even bother to re-evaluate it. If they are eventualy totally adjustable veiws i may consider checking it out.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2002, 08:52:59 AM by Am0n »

Offline AKIron

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #106 on: January 22, 2002, 09:23:17 AM »
I tried Fighter Ace years ago when it first came out. What turned me off pretty quick was the apparent ease with which it was hacked. Hacking completely ruins an online flight sim. Has this been fixed?
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Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2002, 06:05:18 PM »
In the current online build, you can land anywhere and take off anywhere. I usually try to have at least one evening picnic down by the water's edge to watch the sunset as the waves crash onto the beach - and the ships blow hell out of each other - before taking off again to rekoin the battle  :)

The 3D cockpit view is simply a matter of what you are most used to, I think. For instance, I feel like I must be the Jolly Green Giant in AH cockpits - or else there would be no other way my legs would reach the rudder pedals.

That in itself is not bad thing because IRL I always have to have my trousers turned up because my legs (and arms) are a bit stumpy and it's nice to feel super long-limbed every now and again ;)

But it is also the best illustration of how you have an unnaturally large FOV in AH - try sitting in a cockpit in the pilot's seat and seeing all those instruments AND the external views without moving your eyes...it simply can't be done. You DO have a wide angle-lens view of the world...

Hacking hasn't been a problem in FA since FA1.5 (although it was widespread in 1.5 when it neared the end of its days).

FA2 to the best of my knowledge was never hacked, although there were a couple of bugs which could be made to boot players. MS refused to pay for the patches to fix this unfortunately, even though VR1 had solved it.

Now MS are no longer in the picture, I'm confident VR1 will take swift action against hackers or exploiters of "undocumented features".
« Last Edit: January 22, 2002, 07:18:33 PM by SmooMonster »

Offline vmfRazor

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2002, 06:54:36 PM »
Hiya Smoo!

Well I see you are getting to know the guys over here :) I quit playing FA because of Microshaft as well. "You prolly shot me a few times in my __VMF214__Razor nick. " When I got fed up I started looking for something new and ended up over here in AH. Now I still completely suck at flying here, but I have my few shining moments. When I was just starting to learn over here anytime I mentioned I came from FA all I would get was LOL's and "why are you here comments" that detracted from what I was trying to do. But I hooked up with some ex FA'ers in the DevilDogs, and the rest they say is history :). These guys are a good bunch and we all have a lot of fun. But I am also a beta tester. I have been splitting my time between sims lately, which hasn't been a whole heck of alot since the CS bug has caught me again. But I am really impressed with FA3 so far. I wasn't at all impressed with the early releases involving the zone, but this last release really has. To each his own, I liked FA 1.5 when I started cause I didn't have to be a RL flyer to get in and kill. But I never like the ADV. modelling in FA at all. I have grown to like the "real" feel of AH, but when the mood strikes me I like the "planes on rails" feel of FA arcade. They both have their place and supporters I just don't understand why some find it necessary to bash each other immensely.

RazorDD


PS. HIYA MOOSE!!! I remember all those stupid politics arguments we got into in the FANG. Gotta get a few of those started again you pinko Democrat :) LOL

Offline Am0n

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2002, 02:12:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SmooMonster
The 3D cockpit view is simply a matter of what you are most used to, I think. For instance, I feel like I must be the Jolly Green Giant in AH cockpits - or else there would be no other way my legs would reach the rudder pedals.


Tell me something, when you sit down in a desk chair, can you see your knees (not with them under the desk obviously) if you look strait ahead? I hope you can, if you cannot you need to have your eyes check for extremely poor peripheril(SP) vision.

The snap veiw system does not, or should not, represent the movement of your eyes, if you feal that it reflects the movement of your eyes, see my above stated advice. ;)

In AH the way eye movement is simulated is a VERY unigue method, creative as it gets! you MOVE your eyes! :D

The POV in AH is very good, high above average even, its not really arguable. I personally feal it is one of the few good qualities that it has over other flight-sims.

its very good to here that the terrain doesnt murder your plane online, that was very disturbing to me lol..

before i pass further judgment, i will check it out for sure.

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2002, 11:39:20 PM »
Oh yes, I can see enough of my knees to be aware of them...but put your hands on your knees and display three fingers - can you tell how many fingers are showing without glancing down? I can't.

My focus is on the screen, the rest is extraneous, out of focus and undetailed.

In AH, however, it is all there in perfect focus and detail. In FA, it's just not there at all.

Tomato, tomaeto? Let's call the whole thing off??? :)

Offline Kratzer

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #111 on: January 24, 2002, 01:06:16 AM »
Well, you still have to look at different areas of the screen, and since you can't move the computer screen as easily and as quickly as you can move your eyes to look at things you pick up in your peripheral vision, some sort of accomodation is necessary to bring the limitations of the game and the possibilities of the real world together somewhere in the middle.

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2002, 01:18:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kratzer
Well, you still have to look at different areas of the screen, and since you can't move the computer screen as easily and as quickly as you can move your eyes to look at things you pick up in your peripheral vision, some sort of accomodation is necessary to bring the limitations of the game and the possibilities of the real world together somewhere in the middle.


So... that makes AH easier than FA then??? ;)

Offline K West

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #113 on: January 24, 2002, 08:39:44 AM »
"In AH, however, it is all there in perfect focus and detail. In FA, it's just not there at all."

 Which is just like in real life.  IN AH you STILL need to glance down at the guages to read them.  And as in real life, be it driving a car or flying an airplane, the dash IS layed out in FRONT of you and never have I had to move my whole head DOWNWARD (let alone towards your knees) to look at speed, check oil temp or any other guage.  The only people in real life who would have a hard time refocusing from an outside view to the guages on the dash are people with a eye problems.  So FA3 (and WW2O) model views for the visually impaired? How novell :)

  Westy

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #114 on: January 24, 2002, 09:23:18 AM »
Hmmm - last time I flew, even the cockpit in my small aerobatics Robin 2160 was considerably larger than my 19" monitor.

Therefore the angle of deflection required by my eyes to move from straight ahead to dash was considerably greater and I was required to refocus - and adjust to the change in brightness - to look at instruments...

And I would have none of the peripheral knowledge of planes coming in from the side that you do in AH without a conscious scan of the skies.

You are able to take in far more in looking at the screen in one glance in AH than you can IRL.

Come on, say after me, "My name is KWest and AH has a wide-angle view of the world..."

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

:p

Offline Staga

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #115 on: January 24, 2002, 09:36:28 AM »
hmm I tried to get a plane to do a "Snap-Roll" in FAIII but no joy ?
And yes, Realism was turned on.

Planes looks nice from outside but from inside... unh... nevermind.

Offline K West

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #116 on: January 24, 2002, 09:50:10 AM »
"Come on, say after me, "My name is KWest and AH has a wide-angle view of the world...""

 Yes AH does.  So do they all :)  

 Now back to the topic? As for blurry guages in forward views or even a seperate view to see them IMO it is completey unrealistic as anything ever added as a feature to any WWII aircombat game or sim.  Just go look at pictures of WWII aircraft cockpits. Go sit in a REAL WWII fighter wherever you can find one.  You will see that the manufacturers MADE it so that the pilot had minimal eye removal from the outside world to get the info the needed.  The dash is up and it is also in thier line of view be it the 109, p47, spitfire, or p-38.  

 To compare a small aerobatics plane layout to a combat machine is tantamount to comparing a Toyota Camry dashboard to one an F1 racer. They are designed with different purposes in mind and one layout does not take into account the needs of the other.

 Same with the flight (or driving) characteristics if you ever wanted to head in that direction. :)

 Westy

Offline SmooMonster

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #117 on: January 24, 2002, 10:13:43 AM »
Warbird priorities...

First priority - keep the plane in the air (with reference to the RL horizon).

Second priority - see the enemy.

Third priority - see the instruments.

Aerobatics planes are the nearest you can currently get to warbirds in that they are inherently unstable, designed to manoeuvre well, structurally strong and reasonably quick (given their engine size).

I think a Cessna might suit your Camry simile better. Aerobatics planes are closer to, I dunno, a Formula Ford maybe - it's not F1 stuff, certainly, but it's in the same direction.

I will wager a decent wad of folding stuff most WWII pilots took the cues in combat from sensation feedback rather than their instruments. Just as aerobatics pilots rely on visual cues form the real horizon relative to their planes, rather than the gyro horizon, WWII pilots would have relied upon similar, plus the G-force impact on their bodies and plane buffeting for stall warning.

Instruments were used only in times of cruise and climb. If they got in their line of sight during combat then they were getting in their way.

Note: F1 cars have no speedo - braking distances are calculated through instinct and visual cues from landmarks. Instruments are there to reveal problems with the car, not to guide it round the course.

Staga - I suspect you were offline when you tried the snap roll? I recently discovered the default realistic offline (and default online realistic custom rooms) differ in their settings from the default realistic server settings. Coincidentally, I found this out when I tried to do a snap roll in a custom room, and couldn't either. Work is ongoing in identifying what the difference is and addressing it. FWIW though, snap rolls in the realistic server rooms are a work of art :)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2002, 10:18:58 AM by SmooMonster »

Offline K West

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #118 on: January 24, 2002, 10:24:04 AM »
p.s. just to back up my opinion here are a bunch of cockpit dash pix I surfed for. I think it proves my point that a seperate or blurry view is baloney. To me it's quite obvious that most WWII fighters did NOT need more than a quick glance to get guage info and that the guages were layed out to facilitate pilot ease at collecting thier info.  Those, like the Zeke, Spit and 110 that did not have an "up and at the top guage" layout still would not need a major head move to view them with.



http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p38-17.jpg
http://www.war-eagles-air-museum.com/exhibits/p-38_4.jpg

http://www.algonet.se/~molrog/Italy/images/MC205-Aermacchi-cockpit.jpg

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p47-16.jpg


http://www.warbuddies.homestead.com/files/WAR-P-51-cockpit.jpg
http://www.hotel.wineasy.se/ipms/photos/detail_p51a_04.jpg


http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/images/cockpit1092.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0519.jpg

http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/images/cockpits/yak3/yak3-s02.jpg




And out of these examples the Spitfire and ME-110 are the only
ones that need an excessive downward glance to look at ANY guage:

http://www.pilotlist.org/photos/rencontres/duxford/_spit_cockpit.jpg
http://www.photo-galleries.co.uk/flypast/F00003.JPG

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/images/cockpit110front.jpg


And a Zeke cockpit would fall in between the top examples and those of the Spit and 110.
http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/zero-cockpit-2.jpg


  -Westy
« Last Edit: January 24, 2002, 10:26:10 AM by K West »

Offline AKIron

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Sorry to hear an AH pilot can't read
« Reply #119 on: January 24, 2002, 10:24:29 AM »
Always interested in a new sim. Where can I download FA3?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.