Author Topic: Rush has finally gone too far  (Read 2397 times)

Offline Fatty

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2002, 12:32:18 PM »
MrSid, did you read the opening thread?  That's what this thread is about, a percieved outrage over the rich being able to buy expanded coverage and/or care.

Offline streakeagle

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2002, 03:30:14 PM »
Of course the people outraged by Rush's statement are the same people that think everyone shoud have the right to the same exceptionally good quality of care the richest people get for one low price: free (courtesy of your tax dollars)--that's why they are outraged.

The cost of health care and how it could or should be paid is inherently intertwined with the topic of the thread. Of course the majority seem to have decided that it should be provided by the government, or by richer people via specialized taxes by the government (same difference). This leads to the spiral away from the topic into government spending practices, which always comes back to military spending.

There is a resounding theme among the national health care proponents that I will change my tune and want free care when I get older and my health begins failing (in all truth, it has already started, just a matter of years before my knees go out). I disagree. I am not the type of person that seeks out only what is in my own best interest. I have in the past and will in the future maintain my integrity by being honest and doing what I believe is right especially when it hurts me. If you change your beliefs to fit your environment, that is your choice. I would rather define a code of behavior based on what I believe is right, then try to live by it as much as humanly possible.

I happen to believe there was absolutely nothing outrageous about Rush's statement. If I am still alive 40 years from now and am suffering terribly because I can't afford better health care, I will still believe and say the same thing. I won't blame my government for failing to take care of me. I will blame the only person I ever hold responsible for my problems: myself.

If more people held themselves accountable for their own problems and took the appropritate actions instead of blaming the world around them and doing nothing to change, there wouldn't be nearly as big a need for welfare programs. If the people who had the means would voluntarily help the people who both deserve and need it just because it is the right thing to do, we wouldn't need government sponsored welfare at all.

Some people do not deserve help. Society should not support "dead wood". Some mistakes are unforgivable, or we wouldn't have "life" prison sentences. I would like to see our laws changed to more strongly promote the idea that when you are convicted of violating someone's rights in a criminal manner, that you forfeit all of yours. Capital punishment is a good start. The term "Prison rights" is an oxymoron. Why do convicted murderers get better healthcare for free than many law-abiding tax-payers? That is where your outrage should be directed.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2002, 03:37:14 PM by streakeagle »
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Offline ra

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2002, 08:42:15 PM »
<<>>

"Social racist" :rolleyes:

Very revealing Mrsid.  You bloviate about how much you care about the poor when actually you are just trying to look morally superior.  

Couldn't bring yourself to call me a Nazi?

ra

Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2002, 01:59:48 AM »
ra: You just seem to have big time trouble with seeing the poor people as humans just like the rich ones. The fact is that the rich and the poor man are the same in all aspects. The rich man is just more fortunate. You were speaking like the poor would be some grey group who have no human value and can be treated like toejam.

The problem with sickness however is that when you get sick you can no longer work usually. That means you wont have income to pay your medical bills. That means you won't be treated to cure your sickness. That means that you're very much screwed for nothing - even if 2 weeks ago you were the hard working honest guy.

Offline Tumor

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2002, 04:26:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fatty
Free health care does not have anything to do with the original topic.  It is about whether or not people are allowed to spend money.


No it wasn't.  The topic is simple.  Do "You" deserve "better" health care because you are wealthy?

Half of ya'll missed the whole point.  It's about standards.  There's nothig wrong with the wealthy going out and paying for health care, as they should. The key word in the "question" is "DESERVE".  My thought is HELL NO.  They do NOT DESERVE "better" medical care.  My god thats the most egotistical statement I've ever heard!  Sorry but I have real problems with self-riteous people, especially when it's thier god "The Dollar" who makes them so.
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Offline ra

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2002, 05:54:44 AM »
<<>>

MRsid,

You are the one who can't see that having politicians and bureaucrats distribute medical care hurts everyone, including the poor, by screwing up the supply and demand for modern medical services.  Doctors, EKGs, and drugs don't come from a government warehouse somewhere.  They are the product of a vibrant economy, which includes letting people pursue medicine as a career.  I've never met a doctor who didn't like money.  If you set too many restrictions on how they can earn it, they can take their talent and hard work to some other field.

Get off your high horse, you aren't morally superior to my ass.

ra

Offline straffo

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2002, 06:44:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
strange

why is it then, if every other country that has such a wonderful FREE medical system in place, finds its citizens, who are financially able, going to the US when they really need something fixed ???


It's an pretty rare occurence ... it happen for some pretty rare decease ... but if it happen that it's the only way all cost is payed by our SS system (travel ,hotel medic ... all in totality).

so it work :)

Offline Hortlund

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2002, 07:00:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by streakeagle

If more people held themselves accountable for their own problems and took the appropritate actions instead of blaming the world around them and doing nothing to change, there wouldn't be nearly as big a need for welfare programs. If the people who had the means would voluntarily help the people who both deserve and need it just because it is the right thing to do, we wouldn't need government sponsored welfare at all.
[/b]
Oh, I agree completely. But until we reach that place, or rather, until we live in a perfect world, we have to have some basic and fundamental equal rights. No matter whether you are rich or poor, you are still a person, and the value of each human life is 1. At least that is how I was brought up to see the world.
Quote

Some people do not deserve help. Society should not support "dead wood". Some mistakes are unforgivable, or we wouldn't have "life" prison sentences. I would like to see our laws changed to more strongly promote the idea that when you are convicted of violating someone's rights in a criminal manner, that you forfeit all of yours. Capital punishment is a good start. The term "Prison rights" is an oxymoron. Why do convicted murderers get better healthcare for free than many law-abiding tax-payers? That is where your outrage should be directed.
[/b]
I find this line of reasoning intriguing (and rather scary) : Society should not support "dead wood". Who decides what the dead wood of society is? The politicians? Yeah, that'll make it easier to sleep at night. "Some people do not deserve help"? Who might that be? If we are talking about rapists and murderers I agree, but somehow I get the feeling that you would like to include other kinds of people into that category too. Anyway, who decides if someone deserves help or not? Since we are talking about government spendings I suppose the politicians needs to be involved somehow. Do you really want that?

The dead wood argument has been presented before you know, but that was in Europe, and in the thirties...

Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2002, 07:06:40 AM »
ra you must be really stupid to think that medical care would somehow suffer from being funded by the government.

Government funding does also not mean that private hospitals would be somehow regulated, they can remain offering their services as before - maybe for those rich and selected who can now afford to pay $30k for a surgery.

And hint: They pay the doctors a salary also in the public side, sneaky huh?

Offline Hortlund

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A fitting Homer Simpsson quote
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2002, 09:41:19 AM »
Homer: Don't worry, Marge. America's health care system is second only to Japan, Canada, Sweden, Great Britain, well, all of Europe, but you can thank your lucky stars we don't live in Paraguay!

Offline ra

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #100 on: January 31, 2002, 11:30:53 AM »
<<>>

OK, now I understand completely.

Offline Fatty

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2002, 12:16:58 PM »
Tumor, you were tweaked by Rush.


Scenario:  Rush wants to argue over limitations on medical services.

Problem:  Nobody in their right mind would take the other side.

Solution:  Reword statement, substituting deserve instead of should be allowed to pay for.  All of a sudden you've got a ton of people arguing against extra and/or private services.

Offline Gadfly

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2002, 03:14:44 PM »
Did ya'll see the article in today's paper about the California inmate that got a Gratis heart transplant ahead of 500 others on the list(who presumably could have/would have paid for it themselves(insurance))?

That is why Govt should no be involved in anything other than pure funding for medical expenses, if that.