Author Topic: Rush has finally gone too far  (Read 2399 times)

Offline capt. apathy

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2002, 04:56:32 PM »
hate to be the one to point it out to you eagler but you're talking out your ass.
 the emergancy room will not see you for every illness, many times comon sicknesses are turned away "go to your family dr. , or a clininc" emergancy rooms only have to treat indegent(sp?) patients for imediatly life threatning problems.
and even if you are seen they hand them a perscription and they leave, no money in their pocket so the perscription does nothing
then there's the problem with cronicly sick, the only will be treated for the imediate (acute) problem then released, next time the simptoms peak they go back to the hospital and again just get treated for symptoms they never get healed, and we pay emergancy room prices several times a year instead of providing free health care and drugs to heal the problem. they don't get well and in the long run we pay more. lose lose situation

Offline Sandman

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2002, 05:30:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
...(paraphrased).... "Why shouldn't people who have more money deserve better medical care than people who don't"


umm, he probably said it because it true ....

Just like ppl with money get better cars, lawyers, houses, etc .... than ppl without money...

think ur court appointed lawyer would stand a chace against a high dollar one? If you do, think again... tis money that makes the world go round, right or wrong ...


Hmmm... think a U2 line just about captures it...

The rich stay healthy.
The sick stay poor.
sand

Offline streakeagle

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2002, 06:32:00 PM »
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Customers? toejam this world is getting colder and colder, soon we dont have _ANY_ compassion left... customers??? try human beings in need of help.

I didn't make the world a cold place, I just live in it. One of the worst days I ever had in the Navy was when the Captain of my submarine, under a general order from the Navy, assembled the entire crew on the pier to inform us how the Navy has adopted Total Quality Leadership (based on private industry's Total Quality Management) and that our sole job in the Navy was to provide superior customer service. Officers are no longer leaders of men, they are managers of human resources. If defending the nation with your life can be reduced to "serving a customer" (want some fries?), then certainly the health care industry can be treated the same way since it only exists to make profits as typified by the current hospital/HMO system.

Free medical means cheap doctors. If you have a magic formula for making people work harder for less pay, the rest of the world sure would like to know it. Rush didn't say people without money couldn't have health care, he said wealthy people are entitled to better health care since they can afford to pay the cost.

In the Soviet Union, there were certainly people who were exceptional at their jobs, whether they were aerospace engineers or doctors. But those individuals were usually compensated in someway. In a society where supposedly all people were treated equal, some were "more equal than others". I can assure you that the line for major operations was quite long in the USSR. I can also assure you that the politically affluent people never knew there was a line for anything. Rush's statement is not radical or inflamatory, it is a sad fact of life.
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Offline Tumor

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2002, 06:42:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrfish
lol - this reminds me of my days in highschool as a pizza deliverer.

we were the only place that would deliver to the ghetto and tenements. i took the job because it paid more even though there were murders there every few weeks.

the 1st and 15th were our biggest nights by far. it didnt take long to find out why.

i always wondered how someone on public assistance could blow $20 for a pizza??? i mean if you are down to that you oughtta be buying rice and potatos or something.

i remember a friend of mine on assistance showing me her nail job once....her and her two kids lived in temporary hotels.

its a damn shame.


:confused:   I ...agree... with mrfish ...iiiiick!   :D
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Offline Tumor

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2002, 06:46:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
"and walking in to find dozens of rampaging little bastards running around "with a tickle in thier throat". .."

  Tumor, I have to say thats over the top.  I have never known a young mother to not over react to a sick child.  The only thing that might stop this behavior is education. And if they had an education they would not need welfare in the first place.  I just feel grateful for the ones that recognize the limitations of there knowledge.  And take the child to the doctors. It is the ones that assume that nothing is wrong, and the child dies, that get my jaw tight.


hehe... Maybe I had a heck of a good teacher, I dunno but most of my general health knowledge dates back to my eighth grade health class.
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Offline Tumor

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2002, 06:54:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by streakeagle


So the best solution is to your own health care problems is to find a way to be financially successful, which is usually good for the ecomomy as well as you (basic capitalist theory :)). If you cannot do this for some reason (lazy? lack of talents? ), feel free to become a citizen of one of the many countries that offers "free" health care.

 


Well yeah but.....  The very amount of money floating around in this country should negate the very need for this entire thread.  Capitalism produces greed on a grand scale, can't argure that but, why should it PRODUCE apathy?

Better red than dead?  I wonder if party members got better health care?  

How about the Queen and rest of the royal family (figuratively speaking... oh and I'm all for free cosmetic surgery for those folks hehe)

I don't think this argument has to be based on type of government.  We have the type of society to make healthcare good and available to all.  If some greedy bastard doesn't want to share...oh well.
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Offline streakeagle

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2002, 09:37:49 PM »
The type of government and economy has everything to do with this argument. Government and economy is by definition determined by who owns the means of providing goods and services. If the government owns it, that's communism. If private companies or individuals own it, that's capitalism.

Someone has to pay for the health care. If the government provides it, they have to get the money from somewhere. If the poor people don't have money, that means the government has to get the money from the rich people. But the rich people own the government, so you know it is not going to come from them. Final answer: tax the crap out of the middle class to provide 2nd class health care no better than what we have now.

Charity should not be mandated. Plenty of rich capitalists donate quite a bit of their money. The Shriners help children for free. Churchs generally get 10% of their people's income.

As it is. with the exception of transplants where the supply of donor organs is critical, someone can almost always find a means to get health care. I am still against expanding the role of our government. If anything, it needs to revert back to what it was before the Great Depression. Every time the government enacts a temporary measure (such as all the social programs created during the Great Depression), somehow it becomes a permanent fixture even after the original problem is long gone.
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Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2002, 01:04:41 AM »
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If the government owns it, that's communism


Another one who doesn't know what communism is. The army is owned by the (elected) government, by your definition everyone who is in the army is communist.

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But the rich people own the government, so you know it is not going to come from them.


Uh, I always thought the people who elected the government 'own it' not the 5-10% of the 'rich people.' What you just said is far more communist like than having public social services. Communist dictatorships had this aspect: the power was distributed to the small elititist class. I guess in your case it should be called fascism though.

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Final answer: tax the crap out of the middle class to provide 2nd class health care no better than what we have now.


BWAHAHAHAH! One tenth of a percent of your country's arms budget would be probably enough to provide free medication for your people. You sir, are full of toejam.

It's always funny to see the american discussion.. In first sentence you brag about being the most powerful and wealthiest nation in the world. Then in the second sentence you already whine that you can't pay same tax from your gasoline like euro's do because you can't afford it. You can't pay taxes for healthcare like euro's do because you can't afford it. You won't give a cent from your own pocket to someone who needs it, because you CAN'T AFFORD IT. ..

All I can say is that I hope you someday catch hepatithis from the guy you shared your needle with. Then you can run to the charity hospitals when youre broke, unemployed and homeless only to find out that several millions of others thought your (selfish) way and paid them nothing.

It's a short way to the gutter from the chair you're posting from.

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Btw your computer is old POS can't you afford a decent one? Funny that you found it appropriate to post it too.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2002, 01:12:38 AM by mrsid2 »

Offline Maniac

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2002, 05:42:29 AM »
Quote
I didn't make the world a cold place, I just live in it. One of the worst days I ever had in the Navy was when the Captain of my submarine, under a general order from the Navy, assembled the entire crew on the pier to inform us how the Navy has adopted Total Quality Leadership (based on private industry's Total Quality Management) and that our sole job in the Navy was to provide superior customer service. Officers are no longer leaders of men, they are managers of human resources. If defending the nation with your life can be reduced to "serving a customer" (want some fries?), then certainly the health care industry can be treated the same way since it only exists to make profits as typified by the current hospital/HMO system.


So you dont have your own oppinions? djust because your Navy Captain and his leaders choose to have this aproach you have to have it too?

Real Communism (sp?) is dead, start living in 2002....
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Offline Eagler

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2002, 06:37:48 AM »
strange

why is it then, if every other country that has such a wonderful FREE medical system in place, finds its citizens, who are financially able, going to the US when they really need something fixed ???
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Offline Ripsnort

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2002, 08:32:06 AM »
I don't listen to Rush, but I do love Rush, you know why?  Because the Left wing wackos take him seriously.  Rush is about entertainment to me.  If you believe more than 50% of what he's saying, you've been duped. :)

Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2002, 09:17:24 AM »
Eagler I have never heard any case like that which wasn't from some medically underdeveloped country.

Offline Gunthr

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2002, 10:23:08 AM »
I enjoy listening to Limbaugh - but I do listen critically because of his bias. He isn't always objective. I will listen to any talk show that deals with the "issues", liberal or conservative. And we do have some liberal ones in the market I live in. Some you've got to hold your nose while listening to, ie Randy Rhodes - ugh.


On the problem of good health care insurance not being affordable for many people, and not covering enough, and the high cost of medical care in general:

I have heard that in China, there is sort of a division of labor in health care. Not all health care is delivered by fully trained "doctors" as it is in the USA.

I understand that many of the less complicated surgical procedures are performed by technicians trained to perform only that particular procedure, under the supervision of a doctor. For instance, if you needed a tonsilectomy, you would go to a place where technicians trained to do only tonsilectomies do thousands of them, day in -day out. Their protocals are written by a doctor who oversees the program. Because the technicians are not doctors, and only have limited training, the cost should be cheaper.

I havn't verified whether its true or not, but it makes sense. There are a lot of people that are blessed with excellent eye-hand coordination and a knack for doing detailed work with their hands, yet do not have the wherewithal to become full fledged medical doctors. It could help cut the cost of medical care...

Then again,  the American Medical Association and the American Bar Association may not be too thrilled with the idea.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2002, 10:26:01 AM by Gunthr »
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Offline Maniac

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2002, 10:53:14 AM »
Quote
why is it then, if every other country that has such a wonderful FREE medical system in place, finds its citizens, who are financially able, going to the US when they really need something fixed ???


I have never heard about this either (i live in Sweden).
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Offline Ripsnort

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2002, 10:57:57 AM »
Canadian's consistently come to the US for major surgeries, or cancer treatments due to the superior doctors, procedures here.