Tour 12 Fighter vs Fighter stats

[whels1]

mmm Tiff has 4 hispanos, but 2/3 the ammo.

whels

 

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Good point, heres why

1. 4 hispano vs 2
2. Wildly overmodeled roll rate (soon to be fixed I hear)
3. Fastest plane at low alt by far
4. Accelerates fast if it has 10ft of alt
5. Very manuverable at speed, tied to incorrect roll rate I guess
5. Turns well too at medium to high speeds
6. Can always run away spit cant

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
I could care less the K/D of the frigging UFO. I could care less the Turbolasers, anything.

THe problem is not that it has 1.35 K/D THE FRIGGIN PROBLEM IS THAT OF EACH HUNDRED OF KILLS IN THE MAIN ARENA MORE THAN TWENTY ARE DONE BY A CHOG!!!!!!

It seems like only yesterday that K/D was THE ULTIMATE STAT. Should I go looking for those quotes?  

It was always true that in fighter V fighter combat the -1c and the -A5 have had nearly identical K/D's. The new stats just make it easier to calculate since one doesn't have to subtract ground vehicles, goons and buffs.

So, now we've had to change the ULTIMATE STAT to "gross percentage of arena kills". If a plane is used too much and kills too often that is bad; very, very bad.

My question now is "What is an acceptable percentage?"

Clearly, our leading game designer has decided that the -1C's 21.6% of the kills listed fighter v fighter for Tour 12 are simply WAY too high.

So what is the maximum acceptable amount for an airplane?

We need to decide now so HTC can start working on an "auto-perker". As a plane's gross % of arena kills rises, a daily "auto-perker" would kick in and slowly raise the "perk price" of flying that aircraft.

This is the perfect way to discourage people from flying the popular planes that they happen to like.

We can force people into the planes that don't get used and that they don't want to fly. In fact, it should be possible (and easy) to make them fly the planes WE want them to fly! Yeah, baby!

Bound to increase the number of newbie members that go ahead and start an account once they finish their free two weeks.

So what IS the maximum acceptable percentage of arena kills that any one plane should be allowed before perking?

Inquiring minds want to know!  

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 02-03-2001).]

[J_A_B]

I don't see the problem with the F4U-1C

Yes, it's common.  So what?   There will always be a most common plane which has a dispraportionate amount of use.

If you perk the F4U-1C, then the people flying it will fly something else.  If only about 40% of them switch to the N1K2-J (which is quite possible), then THAT will have 1/5 of the kills in the arena.

Will you then have to perk the N1K2-J?

If you do, then those pilots will move to a third plane and you'll end up having to perk that one too.   Eventually, you'll be left with the silly predicament of having to perk planes like the 109G2 and Macci 205.  

I have yet to see an online flightsim where one plane didn't have a larger amount of use than the others.  In AirWarrior, it's the Spitfire 9 (ETO) or F4U-1D (PAC).  In AH it's the F4U-1C.

What about bombers?   If fighters can be perked because of popularity, then why not bombers?   Using the same logic, shouldn't the B-17 be perked?

If you don't like the F4U-1C, develop tactics specifically to defeat it.

The ONE good argument I have seen for perking the F4U-1C is that it messes up the "Perk Point System".  However, the problem there is ANY highly popular plane will have the same effect.  Therefore the PP system should be re-worked to make this a non-issue.

Just remember--one plane will ALWAYS be used excessively.  Perking the F4U-1C won't change that.

J_A_B

[MrLars]

One thing that the hoards of C-Hogs has taught me, how to avoid HO's. Seems that dang near every C-Hog driver will HO you given the chance. Meybe that's why the newbies like it so much, no-skill HO kills are easy in the C-Hog. However, my stats show that since I've resigned myself to the fact that every C-Hog will HO me, I've killed C-Hogs at a rate better than 3 to 1.
It's still an historical abomination IMO.


------------------
Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Length

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by Toad:
 
It seems like only yesterday that K/D was THE ULTIMATE STAT. Should I go looking for those quotes?      

Try to do that, because you will fail miserably. I say that the F4U1-C has an incredible K/D given that all the newbies end flying it. I say that I am tired of seeing half the arena in F4Us. Now try to see who does fly the 190A5. Most are already 190 dedicated drivers who learned (just like me) to fly the 190A8 in the previous FM

Just FYI, Toadie, in Tour 1 when I was a LOST dweeb that was crashing the plane one time each three I got 105-125 K/D in the Chog. I was stuck with a yoke with only one button working and --NO-- rudder pedals at all. I had --NO-- Idea of proper ACM, concept of Energy , and all I knew to do was to HO (yes,HO) and to spray and pray. 105-125 Toad. 0.84 K/D. With a FM MUCH harder than the one we have now. With flaps NOT working. 0.84 K/D.

And it was not me. was the friggin plane and its friggin cannons. Put a newbie on a F4U1-C and he will start to rock'n Roll, killing cons with ease. Put him on a Fw190A5 and he will die miserably because he knows nothing but to spray&pray, HO, and pull the stick.

What do I mean?...that the 190A5 has 1.35 K/D but only 1900kills. Few (if any) newbie flies it. Almost all the people who flies 190A5 is because knows AH and knows how to fly it. So the high K/D is expectable.

The F4U1-C is flown by newbies and experts. The experts get 6-7 kills with ease in this monster. Newbies can do 1-2 kills with a lot of ease, because the turbolasers kill with a touch, so the plane is very used by newbies...the K/D is lowered by them, but if you put the core of people flying Fw190A5 as dedicated drivers in a F4U1-C you will see a K/D in excess of 2. With ease.

Moot point anyway. HTC says that perk planes will be introduced to ---avoid arena unballancing planes---. Nothing NOTHING ---NOTHING--- to do with K/Ds alone.

 20% of all kills are by Chogs.  1% of all kills are by Fw190A5.

Extract your own conclussions. If ONE plane gets one fifth of all the kills is it unballancing?

If HTC doenst perk it they will be going against their own compromise with perk points, IMO.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-03-2001).]

[john9001]

i don't mind the c-hog, i hunt them down in my N1K2...haha......but , the c-hog is great for ground attack, i always fly it for jabo's

44MAG

[Toad]

When I get some time "Rammie" I'll go look up your old K/D arguments.

You still haven't answered the question:

What percent of all arena kills will King Ram allow before he perks a plane?

What is your "max allowable"....Rammie?

Your attempt to divert the argument into "only newbies fly the -1C and it's too easy to get kills in" is just a smokescreen.

That argument certainly hasn't been proven, but assume for a moment it is true. So what if it is a good newbie plane? Should HTC NOT have a plane that a newbie can get kills in pretty easily? Shall we remove ANY plane that is easy for a newbie to get a kill in?

Anyway, answer the question:

What percent of arena kills is too high?

Because as sure as day follows night if you make the -1C inacessible, the Nik will start taking a larger share of the kills. At what level will you give the order "Commence crying!" ?

You and all those like you keep insisting the everyone play your way. First it was the "HO dweeb" threads then it was the "-1C Dweebs" threads that have evolved into "Ban/Perk the -1C."

Maybe everyone DOESN'T want to play your way?

[LJK Raubvogel]

I don't care what the K/D ratio is or anything else. I'd just like to be able to fight more than 2 plane types for my $30 a month.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 02-03-2001).]

[M.C.202]

Downtown said:

> I don't think its too much to ask for the
> P-40B in AH. Also, I don't want them to
> Perk the C-Hawg, cause then someone would
> use it as justification to perk the P-40B.

> 2 X .50 and 4 X .30 calibers of pure death
> and destruction!

Do you want The Pandas or Angels art on your P-40B?

I'm torn between Dick Rossi's or Eric Shillings's aircraft.

I wonder if we will get the "UberPerk" hand built engines that all the AVG birds had?
15 to 20% over "book" hp :-)



------------------
M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Toad:
Maybe everyone DOESN'T want to play your way?

I hardly believe that people really like to fight the same plane all the time...toadie  

[M.C.202]

Kirin said:

> Yeah right, say 202 is good and it will get
> 20% of all kills!!?!? Oh man, face it guys
>, the CHog is unbalancing the MA!!! And as
> stated such a high K/D with that broad use
> is just amazing!!!

No, I said that if the C.202 got as much press, people would TRY it. Big numbers of
people giving it a TRY.
I then say that the C hog, unlike the C.202, has the guns to support snap kills and HO's.
So many of the people who TRY it due to the squeaking here STAY with it.

> I won't argue about Hispano lazers now -
> just read the numbers!

Cannon vs MGs is the core of this, or are you saying that ALL hog's should be perked?

> .......................BTW, can someone put
> those numbers in a graph - maybe THAT would
> make it easier for the average CHog pilot
> to understand...

Would a pie chart do? :-) We seem to squeaking about how much of a cut we get...

> A plane that hardly saw the 200s is
> dominating the arena of a game that wanted
> to cover WW2 arial combat as a whole...

Are you sure that you want to go into the numbers in use thing? That would favor the Allied aircraft at the expense of Italian, IJN/A, and German aircraft.
 
> Ok, give us some german experimental planes
> for free as well and we will bring balance
> back ourselfs...

The C-Hog is was not experimental, it was just low production for the U.S. An
experimental would be the XP-51F :-)

First flight Feb. 14, 1944
5,635 lbs dry, 7,265lbs gross
Max 466mph @ 30,000 ft
cruise 380mph @ 25,000
Roll rate of 90deg:
1.6 sec @ 300mph, 2.0sec @360, 2.6sec @ 400
44,000 ft ceiling
7,500 ft per min max climb!!!! (that's what the book said)

The same airframe with a betten engine (the 14SM Merlin) was faster and had a better overall climb.

495mph @22,800ft
time to 20,000ft ....... 3.4 min !!

Now THAT would be a perk :-)



------------------
M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[Jekyll]

As much as I dislike the Hog-C, I don't think it should be perked.

As modelled in AH, the Hog-C is a Marine Corps aircraft.  Fine, disable it for carriers and see what happens to its kill percentage next tour.

Now I know Pyro has said that he doesn't like the idea of disabling CV operations for the 1C, so I suppose the question for Pyro is ...

What do you feel more comfortable with?  An MA where over 20% of the kills go to a single aircraft?  Or an MA where a CV capable aircraft cannot fly from CVs?

HTC is big on game-balance..... here's their chance to prove it  

[Fatty]

 

I could care less the K/D of the frigging UFO. I could care less the Turbolasers, anything.

I'm going to remember that statement, RAM  

[Fatty]

 

20% of all kills are by Chogs. 1% of all kills are by Fw190A5.

Extract your own conclussions.

People don't like Axis?

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Fatty:
I'm going to remember that statement, RAM  

I am talking about the perking thing, Fatty. The reason for me wanting the Chog perked is not the turbolaaers or the FM, but the fact that 26000 kills are too many.

Other than that, of course I mind the turbolasers. I mind about them and a LOT.