Today is the Day?

[CptTrips]

Now staga, back to my question you avoided.

I think we would both agree soldiers are legitamate targets.

What about those who are working in arms factories producing weapons?


Wab

[Wotan]

1200 "volunteers"  to secure the aid of a nation in a fight to maintain your independence is tough but understandable descision.

I dont care anything about you, your schooling or where you're from so keep that to yourself.

That fact is by your rediculous logic any nation who had volunteers serve in the german military are collaborators or co-belligerents is bs.

Russia attacked finland the west did nothing which left finland with a choice.

The same choice we made when entering into agreements with soviets to fight hitler.

There were american citizens that volunteered to serve there. There were american companies with the support of the american government that did buisness with the nazi government.

Financial institutions in the us had buisness arrangements with the nazis to raise hard currency.

I guess we shoulda fire bombed helsinki to satisfy your bloodlust.

Hell theres some arab children just asking for it maybe we oughta give them a little to........

[CptTrips]

Gee golly Wotan, you gettin a little salamanderly there.

So,  how would you decsribe the Finnish/Nazi relationship?

There is a difference between some citizens of a country joining them and direct support of that countries goverment.

Would "Allies" suit you?  

If not,  give me a word you agree with.


Well?

Wab

[CptTrips]

Well?


Not collaborator, not co-belligerent, not allies, not pals....

Give me your word that describes the Finnish/Nazi relationship for the year 41-43????????


Stop taking so long thumbing through your thesaurus!

Wab

[CptTrips]

Acquaintances?  

[CptTrips]

Let me guess...they didn't really know each other, they were just car-pooling to Moscow?

[CptTrips]

OK, take yer time.  Come up with a good answer.

[Wotan]

i would agree that the Vichy government or 5th columnists in counties like Norway and others can be rightly labeled as collaborators because they openly supported and enabled many of Nazi Germanies policies.

i would agree that a nation like croatia can be rightly labeled as co-belligerent because not only did they enable but supported Nazi germanies world view.

Allies represent a much more personall relationship economically and politically.

Finland doesn't fall into any of that.

Finland had jews serving in its armed forces and never agreed or gave approval to any nazi policy. What they did do was accept help from the only place they could get it to maintain their freedom from the soviets.

They were forced to make concessions to ensure that support. As soon as the threat to them was gone so was their relationship with Nazi germany. They committed no more then was necessary and they certainly contributed nothing to the expansion of nazi policies in finland or else where.

Had russia never attacked finland they may have very well been  allied against germany or atleast maintained their nuetrality.

I cant speak for a fin but it would be better for him to describe or label what his relationship with Nazi germany was during ww2.

From where I'm at they did what was neccessary and kicked the toejam out of some Reds.

[Wotan]

lol i was playing DoD a bit more fun then talkin to a wall...........

[Montezuma]

Some of you revisionist kooks need to remember that the Nazis started a BARBARIC WAR OF CONQUEST, ENSLAVED MILLIONS, AND MURDERD MILLIONS IN DEATH FACTORIES.  Those factors mitigate complaints about bombing.

[CptTrips]

Well, I agree with "most" of what you said.  

I have no love for reds either.  I think we should have pushed to Berlin, gave them a list of Nazi's that had to swing to make us happy, then grouped up with the rest and pressed on to Moscow.  

I think a case could definitly be made for "collaboration".  But I feel the second choice I offered, "Co-Belligerent" is the best fit.  It implies a choice to band together agianst a comon foe without implying a moral acceptance of the others political philosophies.

Never-the-less, every ounce of effort the Finn's gave the Nazi's agianst Russians was just that much longer the Nazi's could stay in power.  Any way you slice it, their efforts even if in their country's best interest, aided and abbetted the enemy. (shrug)

Now go back to your DoD.

Wab

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Montezuma
Some of you revisionist kooks need to remember that the Nazis started a BARBARIC WAR OF CONQUEST, ENSLAVED MILLIONS, AND MURDERD MILLIONS IN DEATH FACTORIES.  Those factors mitigate complaints about bombing.

Damn straight...

Two wrongs make it right.

[Fariz]

Hope this forum is moved to OC, it has nothing to do with General Forum.

Originally posted by AKWabbit
Now staga, back to my question you avoided.

If I'm willing to bomb their soldiers, I have to be willing to bomb their airplane factories. If I'm willing to bomb their aircraft factories, I should be willing to bomb the power plants that supply the factories. If I'm willing to bomb the power plant then why shouldn't I bomb the ball-bearing plant that makes the ball-bearings that go into the generators that supply the aircraft factories that produces fighteres for the soldiers. If the ball-bearing factory, why not the farms where the food is grown that feeds the workers that run the ball-bearing plant that builds the generators that supply the aircraft factories that produces fighters for the soldiers. If the farms, why not the people in the town that work on the farms where the food is grown that feeds the workers that run the ball-bearing plant that builds the generators that supply the aircraft factories that produces fighters for the soldiers.

Like I said, logic is brutal. I understand why you seem to prefer to avoid it.

Wab

"Logic is brutal" you say? Ok, lets move your logic closer to the resent events.

US planes bomb Iraq cities, and US navy shelled Libanon. Soooo, if we will follow your logic, hitting US civilian skyscrapers with civilian airplanes is a legimate tactics? It undermine financial stability or US, and so ability of US to wage wars overseas, so it make it the legal weapon?

I just follow your logic. I think this logic is a complete, total roadkill.  "War is hell"? It is. But when YOU fire at childrens, you are hell, not the war.

Fariz

[Dowding]

44% of aircrew assigned to Bomber Command raids didn't come back.

Whatever the political motivation behind the targetting, they were brave men one and all.

[Saintaw]

So, you're celebrating this anniversary of those Civilian's death ?

This is pretty much distastefull.