Author Topic: Collisions, wtf? (Read 1067 times)

Innominate · « **on:** April 25, 2002, 07:28:18 AM »

ok let me start by posting a little disclaimer, I am a newbie so if I'm wrong somewhere here please tell me.

Often if i get into a HO with someone, they turn at the end, right into me, killing me, yet somehow don't die themselves. I like the idea of collisions as a realism factor, but when I'm hitting someone who doesnt also take damage, it's even worse than having no collisions at all.

Is this intentional for some reason, or merely a design problem?

popeye · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2002, 07:46:19 AM »

If you collide on YOUR FE, you die. If the other guy doesn't collide on HIS FE he doesn't die. Net lag allows one FE to see a collision, and the other to see no collision. Strange, but true. The solution is to avoid collisions.

Innominate · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2002, 10:10:30 AM »

I suppose the real question is, why aren't collisions mutual, why is it implemented the way it is?

majic · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2002, 10:19:34 AM »

Because one guy may be laggy, and its not fair to him if he has no chance to avoid.

EDIT: I said this poorly, listen to Deja

ccvi · « **Reply #4 on:** April 25, 2002, 10:22:47 AM »

Seems to have always been like this, there's no way to get them change it

IHMO if your opponent evades, even if you can't see it on your FE due to net lag, you shouldn't die.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2002, 10:39:27 AM »

Its not that one guy "may" be laggy... everyone lags to some degree.

Its a matter of how far your plan can travel in 150ms-500ms (75ms being a decent ping time by both players... your FE to server... server to thier FD). Basically... no two people see the exact same thing on their FEs because of ping time. Given that... in order to have both people get damage from a collision, you have to accept that you can collide with someone without actually hitting them.

What is worse... colliding with someone and they don't die... or missing them and you die.

AKDejaVu

Soda · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2002, 10:41:22 AM »

Let's look at the facts:
1) 90% of all collisions happen in HO's.
2) Because of the way collisions are implemented, YOU have to ram him in order to get a collision, not him ram you. If you see the collision it means you flew into the guy, not the other way around. If the enemy causes the collision, then he goes down and you don't.
3) You control your own plane so if you are getting collisions it's a problem with your piloting since if you refer back to point #2 you'll realise that if you collided it was your fault anyway.

Soda's tips for avoiding collisions:
- Don't take HO's... it's dangerous enough with guns pointing at each other and going nose to nose. If you accept HO's then who cares about collisions. If you get close enough to collide and you don't kill the other guy too then your aim sucks since you should have sliced him up with your guns before then anyway.
- Don't fly into other people... it's that simple. It's not like they can ram you in AH since that would only kill them and not you. You have to ram them in order to get a collision.

I often have people try and get so damn close that they smash into me and die... it's not my fault they decide they need to ram me. I try to avoid collisions so why penalize me if they don't.

-Soda
The Assassins.

J_A_B · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2002, 11:49:24 AM »

"It's not like they can ram you in AH since that would only kill them and not you. "

This is not completely true. It is possible to deliberately ram other people. What you have to do is figure out how far ahead of the enemy you have to pass for it to detect a collision on his FE, then fly through that spot. Much easier said than done, but it IS possible.

J_A_B

Innominate · « **Reply #8 on:** April 25, 2002, 11:54:39 AM »

Well so far I've been several situations where, at the last second, someone made a sharp turn around in front of me, causing me to hit them. (True that most of them were as much my fault as thiers though)

So instead of causing the laggy people to lose in a collision, it's set up for them to win, since they're the ones who to the server, dodge long after the collision happened?

I have no problem with dying in a collision, what bugs me is that only one person usually dies in them. Shouldn't it be both take damage, or nobody does?

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:28:11 PM »

EVERYONE EXPERIENCES LAG OF SOME KIND.

A person with heavy "lag" has zero advantage in this situation. The simple truth is you hit his aircraft on your FE. It has zero to do with lag and everything to do with you flying to close to where you see him on your FE and not being prepared for that move.

Now.. you're pissed because he got off scott free. I guarantee it is not anywhere near as pissed as you'd be if you'd flown no closer than 100 yards to him and were killed when he collided with you on his FE.

All you really need to do is to come up with a communication system that does not have any delay that everyone can link to and play all games without lag. Then then everyone will see the same thing on their FE and all of this is moot. Simple solution.

Else... figure out what you want more: to die even though you missed a plane... or to die because you hit one?

AKDejaVu

Dux · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:28:46 PM »

Actually, Soda, 99% of my collisions have been in scissor-fights... while a HO is easily avoided, a close-in scissor-fight is a difficult thing to judge due to the lag.

Innominate, it's not a perfect system, and it's frustrating at times, but in the long run, I think it all evens out. You'll get your fair share of unscathed collisions.

Innominate · « **Reply #11 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:43:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dux
Innominate, it's not a perfect system, and it's frustrating at times, but in the long run, I think it all evens out. You'll get your fair share of unscathed collisions.

But thats kind of my point, I dont want to do it to anyone else any more than I want them to do it to me

Soda · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:55:02 PM »

That's 99% of YOUR collisions Dux, mine are the same, 99% of the time it's a scissors or blindside that results in a collision. Then again, there is little/no way to avoid these, they happen and just as often happen to the enemy (it's pure luck when in that close who collides with whom).

90% of the collisions overall though go to the HO... people hang in the HO right to the bitter end trying to shoot the crap out of each other and then ram into each other in the end without bothering to avoid. This guy described the typical collision in AH, it's a HO where nobody chickens out.

JAB, it is theoretically possible to force someone to ram you while you don't ram, but in practice it would be impossible to judge. I can see it now "I know the guy has a ping time of 130ms, so if I place myself at X position infront of him it will appear to be a collision to him but not to me". Nice try though... seen it tried before, it's impossible to create this condition under anything but a collaborative crash.

-Soda
The Assassins.

Maverick · « **Reply #13 on:** April 25, 2002, 01:11:32 PM »

Collisions as modeled in AH are a feature. Deal with it. It has no relation to realism, immersion or any other kind of "ism" you want to add.

BTW the player with the worst connection loses in collisions.

J_A_B · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2002, 01:48:08 PM »

"JAB, it is theoretically possible to force someone to ram you while you don't ram, but in practice it would be impossible to judge. "

It's not impssible at all. The reason you don't see much of it in AH is simple--there's not usually a reason to do this instead of just using guns. The only time it's really useful is against mid to high-alt bombers, and even then you need to have a much better E-state than the bomber to do it. In almost any other case, in order to line up for the ramming you also are lining up for a guns shot and it's just so much easier to pull the trigger.

One constant is unchanged however--you can always avoid the collision. All collisions, accidental or deliberate, require the "victim" to not evade it.

J_A_B