Author Topic: Collisions, wtf? (Read 995 times)

SlapShot · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2002, 03:05:55 PM »

This is my take on it ...

The results that we see are due to the overall architecture of how AH is implemented, and needs to be implemented, due to the fact that we all participate over the internet. The weak link here is the internet and not AH.

Each of us runs our own FE, and results from our FE are sent in packets to the server. The server then, simplistically, puts all the resulting packets together and then sends updated packets back to our FE refreshing our display.

Have you ever noticed when flying at about 10k and you look over the ocean and see black dots that appear to be hovering and then in the next instance, they move, hover, move. This action is due to the above scenario. Sending and receiving packets.

Now ... apply this logic to an HO ....

You and I are heading into an HO D 2.0 both flying over 300mph .... At approx D 1.0 you roll out of the HO and I am determined to slice you in half with full guns at level flight. Remember this whole scenario will take place in seconds with 2 planes closing at that speed.

This is where the packet transmission/updates come into play. I read somewhere (and it make sense) that HiTech has an algorithm that "estimates" flight travel, due to the fact that all packets don't arrive at the same time, and he must simulate smooth flight/interaction within the arena. Without this ... people complain about lag now ... the screaming would be deafening.

So ... you have rolled out of the HO ... your packets may have or may not have been received and assembled at the server and I have not yet received them, but it still appears to me on my FE that you are now 500m dead ahead ... NOT REALLY (HiTech's estimated flight path is now in effect) ... I squeeze the trigger ... see sparkles and WHAM ... we go wing to wing. I am now a flaming dart headed to earth. All of this just took place ONLY in my FE !!!

Somewhere in the middle or end of that split second scenario, our packets have been received and assembled on the server. Mine say COLLISION ... yours says NO COLLISION. I look back and your plane is working perfectly, no smoke/damage from guns or collision ... WTF !!!

I got what I deserved cause I stayed with the HO and I did hit your plane (on MY FE). Why should you be disabled when in reality you did roll out of the HO at D1.0?

I have also been on the receiving end of situations where I check my six and see a bandit not directly on my six but damn close to it. I am in a Spit, pull hard turn, knowing full well that I will out turn his solution and the next thing I know is my tail has been ripped off. This situation could and probably is the result of the same scenario as described above. What I saw was him almost on my six, but his real position was directly on my six 300m back.

This is something that we all have to deal with and must accept. When this stuff happens, you appear in the tower and you pick you next ride. Simple as that.

It was said in a post prior to mine. If you don't want to crash in an HO ... then avoid the direct HO. Once I understood this concept, I have not crashed in an HO unless I have decided to stick with it.

smack · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2002, 11:57:44 PM »

Quote

This is where the packet transmission/updates come into play. I read somewhere (and it make sense) that HiTech has an algorithm that "estimates" flight travel, due to the fact that all packets don't arrive at the same time, and he must simulate smooth flight/interaction within the arena. Without this ... people complain about lag now ... the screaming would be deafening.

Server Prediction! Oh boy reminds me of the Counter Strike Netcode.

What you just explain to me tells me that no fight on AH is fair. I can execute a nice merge to incoming bogie "but the server says that Im somewhere else" GREAT. And when I shot Im shoting a ghost " LAG " ......

Wotan · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2002, 07:29:44 AM »

roadkill colisions have nothing to do with worse connection or lag per se.

Colision are a result of what you see on your front end FE. If you see yourself hit a guy no matter what the circumstance thats your fault. The other guy may see himself d100 above or below you.

both of you could ping lo with solid connects. And colisions would still work the same way. You are in control of your plane and what you see on your front end and how you respond to it is your responsibility. No one can purposely ram you. Dont tell us no crap about "figuring how the fe's are off" it nonsense.

You only die in colisions because you are the only one that saw a colision. Every game you play is like that wb il2 and most others.

Coming up with some bs excuse as to why you die in colisions is just that bs. If you colide most times you will die or be damaged. Now there are times when the colision will register on both fes and both will die. But thats rare.

Now would you rather have it where in those times you think you ho'd a guy and he dies but on his fe he colided but you both die?. Even though on your fe you are clear of him. Would that be better? It would as if you blew up with no reason.

Hell no.

When the world is wired with fiber optics or some other magical cable and ping times are reduced to 0 then mutual death in colisions will make sense.

wrong smack hits are registered on your fe then sent to the server then to the guy u hit. If you hit him on your fe then he recieves damage. So you never (or rarely sometimes lag may interupt damage packets but thats different) shoot at ghosts.

If you believe that how many times have you shot at a "ghost" since you been in ah? Quit the bs this is how games work over the internet.

SlapShot · « **Reply #18 on:** May 15, 2002, 11:56:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by smack

Server Prediction! Oh boy reminds me of the Counter Strike Netcode.

What you just explain to me tells me that no fight on AH is fair. I can execute a nice merge to incoming bogie "but the server says that Im somewhere else" GREAT. And when I shot Im shoting a ghost " LAG " ......

You obviously don't understand the concept of packet exchange and the need for "prediction" smoothing in this application. Without this, you would see a very disturbing "slide show" on your FE.

Stealing a part of Wotan's quote: "When the world is wired with fiber optics or some other magical cable and ping times are reduced to 0 ..." - until this is reality, then you must deal with present architecture - accept it - learn from it - then deal with it.

Hooligan · « **Reply #19 on:** May 15, 2002, 12:17:29 PM »

Even if communications travelled directly to HTC at the speed of light it would take 6ms to get from my house to HTC and another 10ms to get from them to the east coast. HTC has to do some processing on the data in the middle so even with perfect communications, lag would have to be something like 30ms within the US and twice that to overseas players. If HTC fixes the "speed of light problem" then they deserve Nobel prizes for both physics and flight sim modelling. But I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Hooligan

RightF00T · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2002, 04:56:58 PM »

Probably shouldnt admit this but I have made B17s/C47s collide with me by flying in front of them and pulling up at the right moment. Works great when bingo ammo in an La7

It usually results in an explosion or missing wing;)

Wotan · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2002, 08:59:35 PM »

unless you have a film i doudt many if any believe you

smack · « **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2002, 10:49:00 PM »

I tell you like this I have been on level flight " In my bomber " and had a Fw190 Ram me Im in level flight and he rams me. Now I see him come out the other side just white smoke coming out of him but Im going down in parts. Can someone explain this one to me?..

If the FE is perfect Bill Clinton is inocent

.

ergRTC · « **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2002, 11:13:15 PM »

Bill is guilty of something?

Lying to hypocrits about an HO? oops wrong thread

Collision is a mean beast. I find the longer I play the less it happens. Of course then bob starts up and the HOing 110s get intense. Still been a while since I have been in a collision.

I think the real stinker in this is the separation you feel from reality when you see your plane lose chunks and the enemy flies by picking his nose like he didnt even notice you were there. Maybe a little halo should appear over their cockpit for a couple seconds.

The other problem I have with the whole ho collision thing, I avoid hos all the time, and often pull out of the ho very late but before they can get a gun solution (hurri 1 man). Yet I have never ever seen an enme plane fall apart after harmlessly passing me. I think it is just a conspiracy against me.

You guys are just hired thugs helping to perpetuate my own private hell. Making me believe it happens to the others....

Frost · « **Reply #24 on:** May 16, 2002, 01:07:35 AM »

If two planes are close enough for one to see a collision on his FE then both planes should die. This is the only way to even out the differences in lag. Whether you believe a slower connect has the advantage or the faster...it still has to do with connection. Let's face it, if you collide in two planes it's a pretty safe bet both planes are gonna fall out of the sky.

Fatty · « **Reply #25 on:** May 16, 2002, 02:02:23 AM »

There is no lucky winner in collisions, there are only people who collided and people who did not.

Everyone who collides takes damage from it (usually death).

Everyone who does not collide does not take damage from the collision that they avoided.

Do not run into the other plane and you will not take damage.

I know this is terribly unrealistic, unfair, impossible for the elite to accept, but running into other planes hurts. Not running into other planes does not.

K West · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2002, 09:26:44 AM »

"The weak link here is the internet and not AH."

Exactly. But the REAL weak link are the idiots (and there are a LOT online these days) who would ram you for a kill - regardless if they get shot down or not too.
Out of ammo? They'll ram.
Out of ACM? They'll ram.
If just doing it would piss people off? They'll ram.

Simply look at the amount of suicide "pilots" who drop & auger as well as all the folks who love to HO like there is no tommorow. Just add in mutual death rams and you'll see intentional ramming added to the repertoire of these morons in thier bag of "tricks." It would suck big time to fly in AH (or any other WWII aircombat game/sim)

The real solution is to learn to "fly" better and be more aware. Not ask for a global game fix or host setting to solve a minor problem due to a lack of experience.

All IMO...

Westy

Montezuma · « **Reply #27 on:** May 16, 2002, 10:30:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by smack

Server Prediction! Oh boy reminds me of the Counter Strike Netcode.

What you just explain to me tells me that no fight on AH is fair. I can execute a nice merge to incoming bogie "but the server says that Im somewhere else" GREAT. And when I shot Im shoting a ghost " LAG " ......

No, what you see is what you get. If you shoot and hit someone on your FE, they take damage.

ergRTC · « **Reply #28 on:** May 16, 2002, 10:57:54 AM »

from above...
No, what you see is what you get. If you shoot and hit someone on your FE, they take damage.

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maybe not today
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maybe not tomorrow
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but someday, and for the rest of your tail section.
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I had this great experience with a 109 with only wing.... I blew his wing off. And started heading back to base. Wingy yells out watch your six. I look back, I still see the wing fluttering to earth, and the 109 is doing a reversal and coming up on my six. I reverse, he dives towards the coast, and I think, oh it was just a fluke (looking at the plane fly by with no right wing). NO he reverses again and gets a shot off at me, before he starts to spiral to the ocean. He didnt hit me but this scenario took long enough for me to write a message to my friends and one to him asking him where he learned to fly with one wing.

Now that may be lag.... What I dont understand is that normally when you cause damage, it requires the server to contact there fe then come back with what damage you did to there plane. Mighty strange. probably just a really wierd fluke. I filmed a snipit of it, will have to go back and see if I can tell anything from it.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #29 on:** May 16, 2002, 11:51:17 AM »

90% of my collisions happen when I'm bouncing a spit or a n1k. I scream down from alt at 400mph and half way of getting a guns solution the spit/n1k loops up and turns to HO. I'm too fast to manouver away efficiently and collide to the t&b plane. Often both die, in some occasions the HO looper flies away and gets insulted by me