Gunnery Lethality

[Ripsnort]

My reply to "high lethality" is this: Don't get yourself in that predicament in the first place!"

[jbroey3]

If you want to Model how the damage/gunnery model SHOULD be done, and then improve upon there....


Look at IL2's approach, More realistic by far.

No spraying and praying there gets you an entire empinage lopped off from D500 and out!  

Sorry  Aces High.. but the damage system has been a problem for a while, and although aces is a Networked/Multiplayer  work of art, it is starting to  REALLY  fall behind in the curve of modern simulations graphically along with other modes of function.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by jbroey3

Sorry  Aces High.. but the damage system has been a problem for a while, and although aces is a Networked/Multiplayer  work of art, it is starting to  REALLY  fall behind in the curve of modern simulations graphically along with other modes of function.

Are you comparing the lethality to real life or just other sims standards?  Are you a real pilot that has first hand information that the team can use?  (Didn't think so)

[DmdNexus]

It usually takes me a full clip to kill an enemy.
Reducing the lethalness would require me to fly two sorties to kill one enmey.

Reducing the lethalness at 500 yards plus would be nice.
That wont affect me at all, because I don't pull the trigger until 200 yards.

[J_A_B]

Nothing's wrong with the AH lethality overall.

In particular I wish the MG 151's were a bit more effective, although they're bad more because of ballistics than lethality.  

I fly a P-51D in the MA mostly.  It takes a good solid burst to kill me; glancing shots generally do no damage at all, or at most damage a gun or that dang radiator.  Even acks usually take 2-3 hits before something breaks.   When I shoot an enemy plane it requires a good solid burst to kill it; in the case of some of the tougher planes (like F6F or F4U or P-47) it generally takes a couple of good bursts.  

Remember that when you get shot down, particularly if there's a lot of lag, you might not be hearing a "hit sound" for all the hits you receive.  

AH already massively favors the defender in that there are no LCOS gunsights (although this was a WW2 technology) and rearward vision is quite excellent due to there being very little head movement restrictions.  

J_A_B

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by J_A_B


Remember that when you get shot down, particularly if there's a lot of lag, you might not be hearing a "hit sound" for all the hits you receive.  



J_A_B

Correct.  One "hit" sound could actually be representing several hits.

[Modas]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the leathality in AH.  I'm a mechanical engineer and have done some aerodyamic computer simulations in my time (programming in fortran sucked ).

To put things into perpective...

You can simulate a/c turn rates, climb rates, lift drag, bullet drop, bullet energy, etc etc, and that is all relatively easy with the equations.  

However, there isn't a computer built (or at least not one that the average Joe can afford) that can do real time finite element analysis (FEA) on the components being hit and what damage is actually be inflicted on them.  Let alone do it in a multiplayer environment.

So, what you do to accomodate the lack of computer power is apply a generic SWAG factor to the individual component of the a/c and say

If component X receives Y amount of energy from a round(s), component X falls off.  The more energy a round has (i.e round size and range) determines how many it takes to make a particular part fall off.  Thus making is possible to take a tail off of a jug w/ 1 20mm or 10 20 mm at 400 yards.  It becomes simply a factor of energy and an educated guess.  Best you can do IMO.  I don't know if this is how AH does it, but that would be the way "I" would.

Don't change a thing.... I finally figgered out how to shoot

[Fatty]

I still want to be able to kill when down to a pair of .303s or 7mms.  That wouldn't be possible if the lethality goes down below normal.

[AKcurly]

It doesn't matter to me since all players will be affected similarly.  The better shots will still land more rounds than I.  Less effective shots will land fewer.

On a personal basis, I don't care.

Having said that, why not go with the most realistic guns?

curly

[crowbaby]

B]Should we turn down lethality 10-15% to more realistically simulate WWII air combat?[/B]

personally i see no reason to reduce the realism of one aspect of the game supposedly to increase realism? If our ammo loadouts and the trajectories of our guns are accurate, and the damage modelling as good as it can currently be - why not leaave it alone?

I'd rather see overheating guns, so that after a 3 second burst one of your guns would go pop, with an audible damage sound.
Another three second burst - and another of your guns goes...

Similarly, guns shouldn't fire, or should jam, if you're pulling too many Gs.

I think this would reduce the spray and pray crowd, encouraging people to improve their gunnery. This in turn would increase realism and immersion for all of us. It would cut out a few other problems too, like when you rip the wings off a bomber and as it goes spiralling down the guy is holding down the fire button, spraying in every direction.

I'd like to think that anyone who can handle AH's realistic FMs and grasp the complex Strat system would be able to cope with these additions..............maybe i'm wrong?

[SirLoin]

A reduced lethality in the CT might be worth a try...

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by crowbaby

Similarly, guns shouldn't fire, or should jam, if you're pulling too many Gs.

I believe this only happened to early model P51s.. specifically the P51B, this was fixed in the field with an ammo canister being put underneath the gun belts. By the D model it was completely fixed.

But the gun overheating/jamming thing.. I agree with that.
-SW

[Hooligan]

I think this is a really bad idea.  By far the best aspect of AH is that the FMs, ballistics and gunnery model are as realistic as HTC can make them.  Many of us have flown thousands of sorties and routinely perform maneuvers that an average WWII pilot would be extremely wary of.  If I die because I routinely push the flight envelope this is no big deal to me but probably not at all representative of what real pilots did.  Does this mean AH should make stalling behavior unrealistically harsh to “account” for this?  I don’t think so, and making gunnery/weapons less realistic makes as little sense.  If you want to be handicapped with poor gunnery skills due to little combat/gunnery experience the solution is easy.  Quit the game after a hundred sorties or so, or limit yourself to 1 sortie a month to keep your skills at a “realistic” level.

Hooligan

[eskimo2]

Gun ballistics in AH should only be modeled to most closely match reality, IMO.      
This is one area that I do not want to see game concessions making them: stronger or weaker, better or worse at range, or more or less accurate than their real life counterparts.

And yes, I do think that most sim pilots are far better (virtual) shots than most WWII (RL) pilots were.  We have hundreds, if not thousands times more practice.

eskimo

[-ammo-]

Its the ICONS! Without those,  your gunnery would suffer considerably.  With those, we learn when to shoot, and we know exactly the orientation of the EA is. The snapshot is effective because of that.