Author Topic: How about a common-sense scoring system  (Read 2640 times)

Offline Karnak

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2002, 01:45:39 AM »
Ogun,

I don't see kill stealing to mean killing a combat capable aircraft that I happen to be saddled up on.

I see kill stealing to be when I blast an enemy aircraft and his flaming, twisting carcass is tumbling downward on its inexorable path to the ground and some jerk comes in, hoses the wreckage down and gets the "kill".

I think most people see kill stealing the same way I do.
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Offline Kanth

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2002, 02:11:38 AM »
lmao!!!

I have yet to see that guy in the air =)

Kanthy

Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
When I shoot down an enemy plane and only get an assist, I note who it was that got the kill, and then I haunt them with 385 Check-6 calls.

That is my policy on assists.
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Offline lazs2

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2002, 08:09:06 AM »
wide... never even heard of the "ghosts" couldn't care less and it has nothing to do with this.  I fly for the BK's and there are one or two halfway decent sticks in it so what?   Nobody cares.....   Oh wait... you can compete with jg44 I think they are really into the same crap you are.

As toad said... a lot of us could care less about the score.  We care about gameplay.  You are suggesting something that would ruin gameplay for the sake of a, maybe more, maybe less realistic score system.

In everything I have seen about WWII assists were counted.   Kills were often awarded without much documentation.. In fact, I would say that we have a far more accurate count than WWII eh?  Many pilots got awarded kills of planes they never seen crash.   I have never heard of a plane getting killed in a populated area that didn't get awarded to someone.

one other thing... I like the assist feature.   It is very handy since it let's me know who it was I was fighting even if I don't get the kill.   I think all of us who don't care about score like this about the assist idea.
lazs

Offline lazs2

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2002, 08:13:20 AM »
oh... and in my squad it is a "game" (cruel and insensitive as the BK's are) to "steal" lazs's kills.   the heartless bastards even take bets on it.   check out my score for assists.    They managed to steal 4 in one sortie last night.   Oh well... another tear stained night for my pillow.
lazs

Offline Widewing

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2002, 08:31:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ogun


Other than that, just wanted to mention that "delivery" can be important; Widewing, you jumped my squadie bigtime for taking control of the cv one day; not cool.  He know's what he's doing and the cv was just hanging out by the port without an nme closer than 50miles and that's why he told you to take it if you wanted it (he had you outranked by about 500 positions :D  but if you'd asked nicely he'd have given you the cv)

Two cents and a nickel


That is not accurate desciption of the event.

Let's understand one thing. I have a low threshold for what I recognize as silliness. It's a character flaw, and I know that. Moreover, I was too harsh, and I will apologize the next time I see the person in question. But, doesn't make his decision correct, mind you. I do not dump on someones backside without cause. In the case you mention, your squadie was about to waste our only CV, with its spawning port about to be taken. Bad. Very bad. The radio suddenly came alive with Rooks asking "what the hell is that CV doing?" I checked the map, and sure enough, your squadie was sending the CV a full sector into enemy controlled airspace. We were short-handed, with no one to spare to fly from the CV in the first place, much less defend it from Buffs. Furthermore, the port it had spawned from was under attack with few Rooks, if any, available to defend it . So, I turned the CV around and headed it towards a Rook airfield, where it could receive some air cover. Your squadie then turned it back and refused to understand that what he was doing was, essentially, a suicide run for that task force. So, I jumped on his bellybutton and chewed till tender. I didn't want the CV, I wanted it sent to safe waters to prevent it being handed to the enemy. Sure enough, we lost the port within 30 minutes.

Gentlemen, Task Forces are team assets, not personal assets like the airplane, GV or PT you might use. Therefore, you have a responsibility to your team (country) to use that asset wisely. Clearly, some players have no clue as how to use the task force effectively. God knows how many times pig-headed people have wasted this valuable resource despite being repeatedly warned by teammates that the action was a mistake. When someone questions your motives and reasoning, listen carefully, they may be dead nuts accurate in their assessment of the tactical situation. That is why I always announce my intentions whenever I move a task force. It allows for open discussion before the force is committed. I do this because other teammates may ahve a differing need or a better idea.

Never, ever, send a task force into enemy territory unless there are enough resources to defend it. It's even more important when the spawning port is captured by the enemy.

I could care less about ranking. That's no evidence that any individual knows how to use a task force. Please, share you intentions with your teammates and be prepared to change your mind. After all, that's their task force too.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Ogun

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2002, 09:20:10 AM »
(I've been trying to respond to this for three hours but I had a quantum physics meeting and a luncheon with the Pope)

Widewing,
     I like the Rooks.  Have since I started playing, and when you look around at a country that you percieve to be friendly and good with teamwork, you notice those that stick out a bit off of center.

     I don't give inaccurate descriptions, and I would challenge you to find somebody to back your description of the event (btw I have a few that would back mine).  There was no nme near the port; there was no nme upping for the field we were attacking, and we did not lose the port for at least two hours because I was on that long after your "delivery" and our port was fine.  The cv did get sunk I recall after said squadie handed it over to you to shut you up (about 25mins after).

     It amazes me that you just assume that Your concept of where the cv should be and what it should do is the only correct concept.  Defend defend defend unless you have the resources to protect...if that were the case, and we follow Your logic then anytime the rooks are outnumbered we should only cap our own fields.  Your thought is at the base of the absence of progress.

      What You percieve as silly in this case is what I call "planning and executing a sneak jabo attack in an attempt to win a field."  Again, there was no nme near the port, and if they cv got sunk near the nme field where said squadie was directing it, whadYa know, it pops right back up where it had been "idle" anyway.

     What I see is You peeing.  And when somebody else pees farther, you get your panties in a bunch.  If it's about brainpans, I suggest you not tangle with said squadie or myself because you'll get embarassed.  Think back to the first day You played the game; remember how fun it was?  The rooks are a fun group and friendly for the most part and that makes me (and I'll assume others) want to protect that.

      Stop acting like a dictator, step away from Your megalomania, and play as if it were fun and You might find more of what You're looking for; self-assessed character flaws are repairable.

Offline Masherbrum

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2002, 09:41:16 AM »
(I've already sent my check in for the long haul guys!!)

Even though I am relatively new, you can have my kills, if you want!  I don't play this game with everyone for personal gratification.  Every time a bail a fellow Rook out of a tight spot (i.e. my fellow comrade is being chased and shot at, and I save his heine) is enough for me, pure and simple.   I don't give a toejam about the number of kills I have or getting an assist when someone probably ran out of ammo in his bird due to the net lag.  I enjoy the company and my fellow comrades as I PLAY A GAME!!!   The only kill that has been gratifying (besides bailing out comrades) was a cocky, Knight pilot taunting me by flying upside down and getting shot down while showboating.  I play the game, been killed alot (still learning) but now, I have been getting a few 4 kill runs here, had my first 5 kill run, last night.  I'd give all of those back if it meant a more skilled stick on my side, taking it.  Get a grip Wingman.

I agree, leave it the Damn way it is.  This useless whining about scoring is a null issue to me.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

To Dale, NateDog and the rest of you in Tejas, keep up the F^&KING great work!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay
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Offline Edbert

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2002, 10:55:50 AM »
What is "score"?

Offline Beav

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Re: How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2002, 11:26:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing

In the real world,
kills would credited to the pilot who actually shot down the enemy, not to someone who merely pinged him at some earlier point.


I was with ya untill this comment...........
:rolleyes:

Offline Oldman731

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2002, 11:35:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert MOL
What is "score"?

It's a number, that's all, Edbert.  It gets lower the more cautious you are.  Believe it or not, lower is better here.  Lots of people use it to help themselves decide whether they're having a good time, and to assure themselves that they're better than at least some other people.

- oldman

Offline lazs2

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2002, 12:03:30 PM »
I too wanted to respond to this for the past three hours but  that pesky middle east peace conference i was hosting followed by the ceremony inducting all of my squaddies into the AH Hall of fame for being the most respected squad with the most talented pille its.....  well that stuff just kept getting in the way...

anyhow ogun.. I too have been in your position.   I am as blind and deaf as you and have somehow come up with a totally different take on an incident that involved the magnificent and humble widewing in the recent past.   I seen things one way and he saw them in a way that was completely different.  

something is wrong if you have to tell everyone how respected you are and how good you are and then have to turn around and explain why it only appears that you suck.

it ain't rocket science.

respectfully yours
lazs

Offline AKIron

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2002, 12:13:57 PM »
Widewing, you were robbed. Definitely WotW material here.

Implementation of your idea would most certainly cause more whining about kill stealing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Offline Esme

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2002, 12:35:26 PM »
Ahem!  Just because a plane has crashed with damage doesnt mean tht anyone HAS to be awarded a kill. think of the number of bombers -and fighters - that limped home damaged in WW2, unclaimed as a kill by any enemy, and yet that either crashed, or the crew chose to bail out rather than attempting to land?

In the example hitech gave, I'd say that if both pilots are within gun range, give 2/3 of a credit to the pilot closest to the crahed plane, and 1/3 to the other. If one of them is outside gun range when the target crashes, it gets no credit and the plane that IS within gun range gets full credit. If neither are within gun range, neither get any kill credit.  Wheat yo do about perk points is another matter, but thats the way Id do it.

What has always seemed silly to me is someone being awarded a kill on a bomber they shot at half an hour and more before and by then 100 mies or more away. They wouldnt have claimed it in real life - after all, it survived to fly away - so why should they get awarded a kill in a flight sim?

On the other hand - I'm a Bomberpiloten. Succes to me is if I made it to target and back safely, and most importantly of all; did I have FUN doing it?!

In short, the kill stats only matter if you pay them attention, guys. Why not keep your own tally of kills?  Surely the satisfying thing is what you KNOW you personally brought about the demise of, nevr mind what some logging system thinks about it..

Esme

Offline Widewing

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2002, 02:03:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
something is wrong if you have to tell everyone how respected you are and how good you are and then have to turn around and explain why it only appears that you suck.


That's "Great and Powerful Oz" to you bud.... And don't forget it.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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How about a common-sense scoring system
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2002, 03:13:11 PM »
Tell ya what Ogun, if you wish to write fiction, there are newsgroups up on usenet where you can post it for peer review.

The event I am referring to involved SELECTOR as the person who had taken command of the CV. If this is different from the one you are talking about then state so. If not, then you really need to consider therapy.

The situation was this: My squad was flying out of (I believe) A20 on the NDILSES map. Our CV had spawned from the port south of that field. We had just repulsed an attack by carrier aircraft from an enemy CV spawned at P39. They also controlled A40 and 41. This fight had taken place just southwest of our port (P21?).

This was when our CV was steered towards A41 and 42. It was not possible to defend that CV when we were undermanned by 30 or more people. CVs are offensive weapons, but they still need to be defended against airstrikes. Who was going to defend that carrier? Your squad? But wait, you were going on a secret sneak attack mission.... How many were staying behind to CAP the task force?

In addition, I stated then, and repeated before that I did not want the carrier. I, and several others, wanted it sailed to safe waters, where it could be protected until it was needed for something besides ill advised squadie boondoggles. Later, some other person took it up to A8 where it was sunk. By then I had already written it off in my mind. The one and only time that I took command of the CV was to redirect it east of 19, but your squadie sent it back west again. Later, we lost the port, and everything east from there to A18, where we held them. If you can name the date, I might have film from those sorties, complete with message buffer. You can speak with Hammer about what took place, because he and I were discussing this issue on the squad channel at that time.

Now for the rest of your comments:

When you have limited resources, you must limit your offensive fighting or you will over-extend and get crushed. Attacks must be limited in scope and objective, the primary focus being to keep the enemy off-balance and prevent them from concentrating their power at one location. Attacking in 8 different directions severely depletes combat power and virtually assures that you will be defeated in detail. Resources must be husbanded, and used with great care. A rare opportunity to launch a major offensive may present itself, but always exercise caution. Remember the Battle of the Bulge or Gettysburg as examples of over-extention that seriously diminished ability to defend what remains.

I suggest that any study of naval warfare science and history will be of benefit.

When you have at least parity, then you can begin to think about major offensive campaigns. Take note of how the U.S. fought in the Pacific during 1941-42. Learn from this example.

Where did I learn this? I have a background in Naval Aviation. I won't go into detail or Lazs will need additional self-esteem therapy.

Your comment: "It amazes me that you just assume that Your concept of where the cv should be and what it should do is the only correct concept."

My concept is based upon education, actual experience and 35 years of Naval wargaming.

This line is amusing: "If it's about brainpans, I suggest you not tangle with said squadie or myself because you'll get embarassed."

I'm already embarassed about my wasting time debating pointless issues. Beyond that, be advised, I'm not even slightly impressed. Oh, and remember your comment about rankings? Well, I've looked at the scores and stats you two guys have generated. Here's some advice, just to you: Park your plane at the end of a runway, wait for enemy aircraft killed by AI ack to crash nearby and get the proxy. Why? Because you'll accumulate kills 4 times faster than you're doing now, and you'll be able to honestly say that you only die when vulched. Leviathn was rated 1433 last tour. Do you consider yourself 800 ranks better than him? In your dreams......

I mean really, that comment is remarkable considering that it appears that you fly around with "SHOOT ME" painted on your plane in large letters. :rolleyes:

With respect to "having fun", I do have fun. However, I take my fun seriously.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.