same old - same old

[Eagler]

at least 15 dead

Looks like the Pals aren't interested in anything but murder and chaos

Without a central leadership, how can anyone speak for and control these animals? Can someone tell me who ALL the PAL terrorist orgs would listen too? Arafat? Anyone?

They don't even give peace a chance before they strike again.

Give it one more bomb and the tanks will roll again .... and the cycle continues.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Eagler

Give it one more bomb and the tanks will roll again .... and the cycle continues.

I think that is precisely what the militant factions are trying to achieve.  The chaos in the Middle East justifies their existence and peace would only make them unemployed.

I have wasted a ton of time over the past few days arguing about which came first..the chicken or the egg...in terms of who is to blame for all the violence.  But let's face it...shouldn't the question really be, which comes last?  Which side is gonna have the conjones to actually stop bombing or shooting?

Israel keeps trying.  

The bombs keep going off.

[Udie]

....The UN mission was to pin "yet another massacre" on Isreal, when Isreal has in actuality committed NO massacres. They always act in self defence. You can sit there and ignore all the facts of the past 50 years but I wont. As soon as Isreal said to the UN that the fact finding team must be ballanced the UN cancels the investigation. What a squealing HUGE joke the sad part is that so many people around the world still buy into this type of tactic.


Arafat is free now, I'd be willing to bet that the homicide bombings start up again within a week or 2.

 I posted this just on the 2nd looks like I wasn't far off the mark


 Why on God's green Earth is Bush treating arafat like a squealing statesman?!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!  Each day that goes by my support for the president gets a little bit less.    The way I see it is that there would be a state called Palestine right now if it were not for arafat, then I guess there would be no arafat if the palestinians would stop wanting all jews dead. Sharon should have executed arafat when he had him captive.

 


U

[~Caligula~]

Sharon should have executed arafat when he had him captive.

Damn right..

15 dead..some trapped under the ruins....sigh

[Nashwan]

Arafat is one man. Hortlund has the statistic that 73% of the Palestinians support the suicide bombers. I suspect that figure is even higher now.

Until Israel offers a workable state, the violence will continue.

All the arguing of who did what to whom, who did it first, who's right and who's wrong won't change that fact.

Seperate, put up a strong border, and keep the Palestinians out of Israel.

[~Caligula~]

Seperate, put up a strong border, and keep the Palestinians out of Israel.

I aggree 100%

One more bomb ,and I bet the IDF will do just that.

[Staga]

Is there still someone who thinks actions Israel did in west bank in Jenin and Ramallah really help to get peace in middle east?

Once again if you didn't get it first time:
All Israel did was it created more potential suicide-bombers.


You reap what you sow.

[StSanta]

STaga:

When Barak was PM, the Israelis compromised and compromised and compromised.

The Palestinians refused to do the same.

Some time later, the peace friendly Barak is replaced by the hawk Sharon.

Now, the Palestinians are reaping what they sow. They had a very good chance of getting peace - start a deal with Barak, then move on incrementally. They didn't even do that.

Sharon si a squealing stunninghunk with little interest in peace on anything but absolutely Israeli terms. Arafat knew that when he dealth with Barak.

Basically, IMHO, Arafat got greedy and blew it. Am beginning to think he's more a part of the problem than the solution, and I've always thought om him the other way around.

[fdiron]

This is no longer a diplomacy issue.  Its Israel's responsibility to terminate any 'force' that threatens its citizens.  I guess what it boils down to is that Palestinians have to die for Israelis to live.  Thats fine with me.

I think this could possibly escalate into a large Middle East war.  I just hope Israel has the man power and technology to hold off the hordes.

If I had to attribute one thing to causing this conflict, I would say ignorance.  I have no statistics to go by, but I would imagine the majority of Palestinians are horribly uneducated.

[Nashwan]

When Barak was PM, the Israelis compromised and compromised and compromised.

The Palestinians refused to do the same.

Not really true.

The Palestinians were prepared to compromise on a key issue for Israel, the right of return.

That's something Israel cannot allow, a million or more Palestinian refugees returning to the land they owned in Israel.

What Arafat needed in return was a viable Palestinian state. Israel didn't come close to offering that.

Therecan't be a Palestinian state with the existing settlements. Israel will not abandon the settlers in Palestinian territory, and wanted land tolink up all it's settlements.

That would have split the Palestinian state into 3 chunks, with Israeli territory, and border crossings, between each.

Water rights, and final say on all matters affecting both countries, would have remained with Israel.

That's not a deal Arafat could have enforced amongst the Palestinians. Trying to do so would have made him appear to be an Israeli puppet, selling out the Palestinians in return for support from Israel.

A Quisling, if you like.

There are about 60,000 settlers living in isolated settlements in the west bank. The rest live in settlements close to the Israeli border, that can be absorbed into Israel.

With those 60,000 in place, there can't be a viable Palestinian state. Israel cannot abosrb the whole of the West Bank into Israel, to do so would make the Palestinains citizens, and they would have to have the vote. That would give them close to political parity with the Jews, not something Israel is willing to contemplate.

Sooner or later Israel is going to have to evacuate those settlements, and allow the Palestinians a state. The majority of Israelis are in favour of that, it's just not something their government is willing to agree to yet.

[streakeagle]

Originally posted by Nashwan
Arafat is one man. Hortlund has the statistic that 73% of the Palestinians support the suicide bombers. I suspect that figure is even higher now.

Until Israel offers a workable state, the violence will continue.

All the arguing of who did what to whom, who did it first, who's right and who's wrong won't change that fact.

Seperate, put up a strong border, and keep the Palestinians out of Israel.

No matter what Israel does, there will be terrorism against Israel as long as both Israel and Arab nations exist. Every choice available to the US will ultimately lead to more deaths. We simply get to choose who the dead will be: Israelis, Arabs, and/or Americans.

[Staga]

StSanta maybe you should watch This first...
it's from Israeli peace movement Gush Shalom.

[Kieran]

Is that a whine?

[Nashwan]

No matter what Israel does, there will be terrorism against Israel as long as both Israel and Arab nations exist.

Jordan and Egypt have both signed deals with Israel, and are not a source of terrorism against Israel.

Egypt has fought an internal war with Islamic terrorists, at great cost to it's tourism industry. The efforts of the Islamic extremists to topple the Egyptian government by destroying the tourist industry caused a backlash. The extremists became more marginalised, and have not mounted attacks in Egypt since.

People trying to build a future do not support terrorism. There is a reason terrorists try to destroy the economy first, the unemployed, the poor, have less to lose and more to gain by terrorism.

Peace would bring economic benefits, and create a class of Palestinians who have to much to lose to allow terrorism to continue.

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by Udie




 I posted this just on the 2nd looks like I wasn't far off the mark


 Why on God's green Earth is Bush treating arafat like a squealing statesman?!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!  Each day that goes by my support for the president gets a little bit less.    The way I see it is that there would be a state called Palestine right now if it were not for arafat, then I guess there would be no arafat if the palestinians would stop wanting all jews dead. Sharon should have executed arafat when he had him captive.

 


U

Udie, Arafat is the recognized leader of the Palestinian population. He wears a rag on his head, washes his hands often, doesn't indulge in alcohol and has bad breath. He is who you deal with in negotiations if you are Ariel Sharon.... who drinks to excess, never washes his hands, has a bad flatulance problem and whose breath is just as foul, given their genetic disposition for being at least first cousins.