Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement

[Samm]

F4u is a great plane, my favorite at the moment . Thankfully I rarely meet any competent La7 pilots in it, the ones I've met 1v1 will normally dive and run after I do a couple of very basic acm and get behind and above them . The ones that engage aggressively and stick it out longer than 20 seconds are the ones that send me to davey jones .

[Samm]

The La7 I've flown can out turn anything it can't out run, perk planes excluded .

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Nifty
The La-7 turns well at NO speed.  It turns average at low speeds, not too bad at medium speeds, and doesn't turn well at all at higher speeds.  A Mosquito can follow a La-7 through turns, rolls and vertical moves at 350+.   It rolls reasonably well at medium speeds, and rolls poorly at higher speeds.

Over 300mph, a CHog will out roll and out turn a La-7.   I'd even venture that'd be true down to 250mph.  The La-7 has better top speed low alt, and better acceleration low alt.   It doesn't turn better at speed, which is what you're basing the La-7's uberness on.  Armament?  Don't even try to take the La-7 into the CHog's realm there.  2 shvaks (200rpg) or 3 b-20s (150 rpg) does not come close to 4 Hispanos (230 rpg for 2, and 232 rpg for the other 2).  The La-7 carries ONE 100kg bomb (close to 250lbs).  The F4U-1C carries 2000 lbs of ordnance and 4 hvar 5 in rockets.

I agree 100% with Lev's assessment of the CHog vs the La-7.

edit:  Puke, that film better not be from last night with me squeaking about getting constantly gang banged!  

I think we should understand that high-speed turning is generally a non issue as this is governed by G loading. It does not matter what you fly, at high-speed both will hit the blackout wall in a tight turn, as long as it's not in compression.

Now, if you want a fighter that will give the La-7 all it can stand in terms of speed and climb, try the Yak-9U. Although it is slightly slower on the deck, it climbs as well or better (depending upon altitude). Moreover, above 5k, it is faster too. In terms of maneuverability, the Yak is considerably better at speeds under 250 mph. Acceleration favors the Lavochkin, but only on the deck, and only slightly at that. In my opinion, the Yak is a better balanced design.

I have flown it sporatically until nearing the end of this tour, where I started flying it often. So far, i'm 37/6, with four losses to ack and Flak, one auger and one loss to a snap shot. That's 37/1 air to air. Not bad for a "middle of the pack" pilot. The downside is it's light armament (on par with the Bf-109F) and consequently, its small ammunition load. Despite the lack of punch and ammo, I can still manage 4-5 kills per reload. However, it is not a good weapons platform for snap-shooting. This is illustrated by my 16 assists in the type. Snap-shots are not usually fatal, allowing others to snatch the kill before you can maneuver for another try. Another factor is its limited range, lacking any provision for external fuel (not unlike the La-7 or C.205).

All said, the Yak-9U is a good match for the SpitIX in a turn fight, and a notorious Mustang killer. Likewise, it is an excellent choice for dealing with the La-7 too.

BTW, the Yak eats F4Us like candy, being superior in every category but roll rate. Even there, it is not far behind.

Indeed, the Yak is so good that I feel very confident taking on any fighter with the expectation of winning, or at least, surviving.

If you haven't tried the Yak, I suggest doing so.

My regards,

Widewing

[Nifty]

I'm not discounting that it can't outturn anything it can't outrun.  My contention is that the Corsairs (and even more to the point, the Hellcat) have a better instantaneous turn rate than the La-7 at higher speeds, and definitely better roll rate at higher speeds.  The Corsairs also dive better than the La-7s, IMO.

also, IMO
Speed - La-7
Accel - La-7
Low speed roll - tie, maybe La-7
med speed roll - Corsair
high speed roll - Corsair by far
sustained turning - maybe La-7, tho drop a notch or two of flap and the Corsair might be able to hang in there.
instantaneous turn 300+ mph - Corsair
guns - Chog hands down, tie between La-7 and the 1 and 1D hog (50 cals have much better ballistics and reach than the shvaks or b-20s)

This is in my experience playing the game.  Granted, if all we are talking about is the MA furball, the La-7 is a fine choice of a plane, a better option than the Corsair.  If we're talking all around, the Corsair (especially a CHog) is a formidible plane, not all that much worse off than an La-7.

[Nifty]

Widewing, I agree with you on the Yak.  They scare me more than just about any other plane in the game.  I didn't include the Yak because the point was the La-7 not perked vs the CHog being perked (and we all know the CHog was perked because of it's MA usage).

Anyways, I fly the Spit V mainly (sometimes Spit I when we're not gang banged all to hell and back) because it suits my mindset, skills, and tastes in planes.  I fly the La-7 when a base loses fighter hangars and I want to get back in there for defense.  I take the La-7 from the nearest base because I know under 10k, nothing short of spending perks will get me there faster.  Perk it, and I'll use a La-5.  Just gets me there a bit slower.  However, I just don't see the need to perk the La-7.  It's just FAST.  It's not that much better than the rest of the planeset, and not on par with any of the perk planes, except the overused CHog.

[Feenyx]

I don't usually like posting on the BBS, but I thought I'd interject here, at the risk of diverting slightly off-topic.

Now, if you want a fighter that will give the La-7 all it can stand in terms of speed and climb, try the Yak-9U. Although it is slightly slower on the deck, it climbs as well or better (depending upon altitude).

This isn't the case until you get to over 10k.  Under that, the LA7 greatly outperforms the Yak in both zoom climb and sustained climb.  The big difference is that the LA7 has WEP, whereas the Yak does not.  The LA7's WEP makes a BIG difference in climb rate.

Moreover, above 5k, it is faster too.

WEP increases the LA7's top speed well above the Yak's at any altitude under 8k, at which point the LA7's WEP turns off.  Even then, the Yak doesn't have any significant speed advantage until about 12k.

Both of those facts are quite easy to look up on the aircraft performance charts.

In terms of maneuverability, the Yak is considerably better at speeds under 250 mph.

I agree, though it's hard to get good emperical data to prove it.

Acceleration favors the Lavochkin, but only on the deck, and only slightly at that.

Widewing, did you completely forget that the LA7 has WEP?  With it, the LA7 outaccels the Yak up to 8k by a wide margin.

All said, the Yak-9U is a good match for the SpitIX in a turn fight, and a notorious Mustang killer. Likewise, it is an excellent choice for dealing with the La-7 too.

I agree with all of this, except that if you get low and slow a good Spit pilot will eat you alive in a pure turn fight.

BTW, the Yak eats F4Us like candy, being superior in every category but roll rate. Even there, it is not far behind.

Truer words are rarely said.

All in all, the Yak is definitely a great plane, and I love it to death (literally, in the MA).  But it's not a kill-all-comers aircraft.

Oh and while I'm here I might as well toss in my $0.02, and say that I don't think that the LA7 needs to be perked any more than the SpitIX and P51D do.  Take that as you will.

[Samm]

The La5 also beats the yak9u to 10k . And all three out climb and out accel the f4u1s by a wide margin .

[Steven]

Shhhh on the Yaks!   I hate those things.  Maybe if we pretend they do not exist, no one will fly them.  And yes, they certainly do eat Corsairs for lunch.  

F4U high speed turning compared to LA7 is and isn't a factor when you hit the wall...because if the F4U hits the wall, he's bleeding his E in great quantity and thereby digging a hole he cannot climb out of when against an LA7 and basically SA is lost.  But sometimes there is no choice because the LA7 can catch an F4U and keep up with any lesser turn.  I don't find myself able to dive away from LA7s either but that's mostly due to the low altitude they are encountered and LA7s typically keep their speed up too.

F4U-1 is an interesting bird to fly because if you try to stay above tpyical LA7 altitude dominance, you have P51s, G10s, D9s, Typhoons and a few others who will force you down low.  Nevertheless, I love flying the F4U-1 or I wouldn't do it.

[Urchin]

It is sort of interesting how different people view the same planes performance.  I always thought the LA-7 could easily out-turn an F4U, because I can out turn them in a 109G-10 and the La-7 can out turn me.  However, the F4U is often flown by people with very little experience, so it may in fact be able to out turn both the 109G-10 and the LA-7 if both planes are flown 'to the limit'.  The F4U has got a nasty stall though, I think most people are afraid to fly the plane as hard as it can be flown because of it.

[Samm]

The F4u can turn very well at low speeds with two notches of flapage . Was playing around with it in TA testing it out, f4u1d with 25% fuel turned tighter than f6f with 50% fuel. However, f6f with 25% fuel turned tighter than f4u1d with 25% . Naval planes have large fuel tanks.

[MANDOBLE]

Said before, said again, most uber AH plane: Yak9U, then La7,  then any with one or more hispanos. Yak9U and La7 due raw performance, any one with hispanos due that fact makes its performance twice as effective as it should be as an unnarmed plane.

[scspook]

Surely if you believe that you are flying an inferior aircraft to the one you are opposed to in the air, it make sense not to engage that aircraft by choice.  SA should save you the majority of time when it comes to getting jumped.

Even in the heat of the furball, local voice comms can save your prettythang and you can direct your aggressor in the area of friendlys so they can latch on his/her 6.

You cant jump into battle thinking that the strengths of your own aircraft are enough on their own to defeat your opponant.
La7, 51, F4u etc.  There all the same. Its the pilots choices that decide whether you live or die.

No names, no packdrill.  I ran into a 110 pilot last night over a little island where the 2 of us went at it.  First I guaged his alt. Then his distance. My approach and the strengths and weaknesses of both aircraft. Then I attacked.  I usually eat these things for breakfast.

Imagine my suprise when for the very first time, I suddenly find myself up against a pilot who really knows how to handle the 110 and instead of the relatively easy kill, all preplanned and half way through painting another cross on my tailfin, I find that im locked in a whirling dogfight at close range, fighting for my life.

Entering the battle, I knew this.  I had the speed.  He had tailguns, weak in nature but guns none the less and a stable platform to shoot from for short periods.  I chose to stay in close and not to extend. For a top down fuselage shot or belly shot rather than risk the weak guns at the rear.  My decision was a simple one.  Face weak rear guns or no guns at all.  I went for the later.  I also negated one of my primary strengths in doing so. The ability to extend away.  I made a concious decision to do so, so that I would not have to attack from any position to the rear of 3 or 9oc as he raced away.

This 110 pilot threw me tho. Instead of running helter skelter and waving his arms like a big girl screaming, he believed in himself and his aircraft and reversed my advantage, doing his damndest to kill me instead.   This reversal of fortunes threw me. Particularly since this guys used his E management and Rudder and Flap skills like a pro.

We locked in on each other and exchanged glancing rounds above and below, front and rear and this went on for sometime, with neither of us gaining a distinctive advantage.

During the melee however with desperation beginning to show on both pilots. My conscious decision to remain close in as possible to the 110 proved fatal.  We did what all of us hate the most in online Flying besides l33t dweebs and bad lag.  We collided.

A horrible end for a glorious encounter fought with both aircraft and skill.

I saluted this skilled pilot whilst I hung in my chute and watched his unfurl and float down some distance from me.

I got a thankyou from him and then a slap in the face with the allegation of deliberate ramming.  Unfortunately, I was unable to make him see why it occurred.  No point in arguing in there, so I didnt.  He went his way and I went mine.

The point im trying to make is.   I will fight in my La7 my way.  Not yours.  The decisions I make with it and made so that I control the fight. Not you. Be you 110 or TBM.  I would rather meet a pilot like the one above and be bested in that manner and accept it than a pilot who simply thinks I won or lost because of my aircraft.

His 110 showed its not the plane.. Its the pilot.

Had we continued without collision, he may well have won and I would have learnt a valuable lesson the hard way.

That he was a better pilot...Even if he was a little ungracious about it LOL.

Dont whine in there about La7's.  Salute and fly on.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by scspook

Imagine my suprise when for the very first time, I suddenly find myself up against a pilot who really knows how to handle the 110 and instead of the relatively easy kill, all preplanned and half way through painting another cross on my tailfin, I find that im locked in a whirling dogfight at close range, fighting for my life.

 

Ever see what a well flown IL-2 can do in a furball? I have. At least five air to air kills in one sortie. Two Spits, 109, P-51 and a Hellcat. It was a shocker for the victims and the observers as well. I certainly got a kick out of it.

Never taking anyone or any aircraft lightly is a good motto to live by.

My regards,

Widewing