Author Topic: Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement (Read 1252 times)

Kanth · « **Reply #75 on:** May 29, 2002, 04:18:37 PM »

Same here, dood is an excellent wing.

Just thot I'd drop that note in here since it was brought up.

Kanthy

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Originally posted by Nifty

Grabeski's already cleared my 6 on more than one occasion.

Tac · « **Reply #76 on:** May 29, 2002, 04:26:33 PM »

Want to beat an La-7?

SCISCOR IT.

That thing's monster acceleration will always make it put itself in front of your guns. Get a few shots into it and the La7 will either turn to evade (aka you get him easy) or runs/dives away.. and you just stay hi and keep a watch on it... thats all there is to it.

The problem with the LA7 is that its unperked BUT its as fast as perked planes. That's the real issue. I wouldnt mind seeing this plane put at a 2-5 perk cost. The La-5 is far deadlier anyway.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #77 on:** May 29, 2002, 04:28:50 PM »

Perk da dweeb widow maker!

Samm · « **Reply #78 on:** May 29, 2002, 04:30:53 PM »

Please explain why you think the la5 is far deadlier than a plane that you think should cost 2-5 points .

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #79 on:** May 29, 2002, 04:44:46 PM »

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Originally posted by Samm
Yes if that were the case, but it's not . By performance I mean agility, speed, and leathality collectively.

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I'd rank the La7 about on par with the Spit IX if you're going to create an index of desirability. The Spit is slower and doesn't accelerate as well overall, but it's far more agile at just about every speed, maintains excellent performance at high altitudes, and possesses a lethal gun package with plenty of ammo. It's not as survivable because it lacks the La7's speed, but we're looking at the big picture here. Should we perk the Spit IX too?

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It's not a case of "it does one thing better than this plane, and one thing better than this plane." like the planes that you made refference to. The fact is it is faster than the majority, accelerates better than the majority, climbs better than the majority, has better firepower than the majority, has a good ammo load . And unlike most of the very fast planes it is substantially manuevreable .

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I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'd guess that the La7 is only faster than some of the perked planes, and even then only at low altitudes. Have you ever seen the F4U-4, Tempest, or even Spit XIV accelerate? Lightning quick. And come on, there's no way that you can argue that the La7 possesses a better guns package than a majority of the perked planes. The Spit XIV has the same gun loadout as the Spit IX. The Tempest and F4U-1C have four 20mm Hispanos. The Ta-152 sports a couple of 30mm and 20mm cannons with plenty of ammo. The 262 is the best of all with four 30mm cannons and plenty of ammo to go along with them. In addition, the F4U-4, Tempest, Spit XIV, and 262 all climb at or above 4k/minute, easily equal or better than the La7.

High speed manueverability for the Spit XIV, Tempest, and 262 is excellent. I should dig up a film I made the other night of my 262 manhandling a co-alt, initially co-E La7. It was an obviously unfair fight from the getgo.

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It is a better plane than the ta152, yes you can argue that it isn't but c'mon, keep it real . And certainly better than the f4u1c .

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The Ta-152 excels at what it's intended to do. Think Dora with better guns. As for the F4U-1C, I'd like to see the La7 lug as much ordinance, spew forth as much 20mm Hispano death, take as much damage, and be able to take off both CVs or fields. The Hog was an all-around unbalancing monster.

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It isn't a huge menace to me and it's usually flown by suckass pilots . I don't care if it is ever perked in the ma . I just said that it is as good as, if not better than some of the perk planes yet it is free, which is true . That is the only justification for it ever being perked in the ma . It is regularly perked in the ct .

I disagree that it's just as good as a "majority" of perk planes. All of the perked planes would rate higher on the index of desirability in my book when you look at the big picture.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Steven · « **Reply #80 on:** May 29, 2002, 04:52:17 PM »

<<
SCISCOR IT.>>> -TAC

I must be running into the wrong pilots then, because every time I attempt to throw one out front of me and scissor it, he laughs in my face and pulls up to keep from overshooting me in the horizontal. Then all he has to do is cut throttle and stay behind me because an F4U isn't going anywhere...it certainly will not out-acclerate the monster to get away and it isn't going to out maneuver it. It's at this point I know how a mouse feels when cornered by a cat.

Did I mention that if you unperk the F4U-4 or give me a free Bearcat I'll stop whining about the LA7? (Of course, it's mostly tongue-in-cheek.)

MrLars · « **Reply #81 on:** May 29, 2002, 05:07:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Steven

he laughs in my face and pulls up to keep from overshooting me in the horizontal. Then all he has to do is cut throttle and stay behind me because an F4U isn't going anywhere...it certainly will not out-acclerate the monster to get away and it isn't going to out maneuver it. It's at this point I know how a mouse feels when cornered by a cat.

Going verticle when someone tries to scissor you is the proper move if you want to retain your E and get your guns back on your target in any plane I would imagine . If you find yourself in this situation a lot I would take a serious look at your SA. Getting caught on the deck is, IMO, a clear indicator that you haven't thought out your attack properly...YMMV as always.

Tac · « **Reply #82 on:** May 29, 2002, 05:48:53 PM »

Samm: The La5 can knife fight, the la7 cant. it has the almost the same dive ability, can go to almost the same top speed. The LA5 doesnt accelerate as well as the la7, but its still darn good accelerator when you compare it with the other arena planes. Of all planes I find the La5 to be THE toughest plane to beat.

Steven: The La7 cant turn that well. Sciscoring it will turn the La7's greates asset, its acceleration, against it and make it overshoot. Now, if he pulls nose up to not overshoot (when he's inside d400), YOU pull nose up and do vertical sciscors with it, where again, the LA7's accel will put in in front of you. Alternatively, you can start a tight spiral climb.. the la7 cant turn well, especially at slower speeds (which if he pulled up he'll be slower).

If La7 pulls up before he's inside d400 then you can either dive and try to bait him into coming in so fast the next run he will overshoot OR you can make him turn with you.

scspook · « **Reply #83 on:** May 29, 2002, 06:17:58 PM »

I fly the La7 almost exclusively. I neither think my self as a dweeb or a noob to simulated flying. At my present level in AH, I regard myself as an average to good pilot.

I fly the La7 for its low level speed. My guns are bad. My turn rate worse. But I would be a poor La7 if I did not apply the same basic tactics employed by the majority of pilots in the arena, regardless of aircraft.

1. Energy retention.
2. SA.
3. Ability to use the aircrafts strengths and avoid its weaknesses.

When I fly the La7. I avoid conflict with certain aircraft. I choose my victims. I avoid the HO whenever possible and prefer to wait for the right AoA.

In part it is the plane which allows me to survive. But only because the pilot is thinking all the time and aware of his limitations and strengths.

I have been beaten by supposed weaker aircraft because it was piloted by a better pilot.

Air Combat is not about perking the planes. Tho I agree with the perks on those present, simply to keep the sky from being full of them. Hardly the La7's problem there. Air Combat is the pilot.

If you believe your plane Uber enough to survive an encounter and rely solely upon that, you will die. Plain and Simple.

Basic everyday tactics, SA and forethought. Planned exit points. Planned AoA's and simply common sense will see ANY pilot in there the better on the day.

You just have to be a better pilot than the next man. Please dont perk the pilots!

Mister Fork · « **Reply #84 on:** May 29, 2002, 06:22:19 PM »

No offence Spook, if you had balls, you'd fly the La-5 like I do.

I'm a BIG russian aircraft fan (love the Yaks and the La's - no Mig's though

) and I consider the La-7 the 320Hp Camero of the skies. It's fast, it's ugly, it turns like the snot, and it's a meant for dickheads.

Fork

Steven · « **Reply #85 on:** May 29, 2002, 09:19:44 PM »

<<>> -TAC

You must not fly the F4U-1 that much.

Yes, textbook this all sounds fine but rarely does it play out so in Aces High. The last thing I want to do is get slow in a hog, against anything but especially against an LA7. I doubt I turn any better than him at low speed and I guarantee you my accelerated stall is nastier than his.

Going vertical a lot of times is going to get me slow and if I attempt any roll I'm going to get a funny yaw and then I'm in some trouble. From my little experience, the F4U-1 is about one of the worst climbing fighters in here. Once the hog gets slow, it just wallows...you can't roll and you certainly can't turn and you now have to fight a stall and the enemy aircraft. The difference is, the LA7 can actually affored to slow down vs the F4U-1 because he can regain his E in a snap, whereas the F4U-1 is going to be wallowing in the mud for a long time. This excess acceleration leads to an E advantage and he can keep behind me by putting himself in out-of-plane maneuvers. I guess it sounds to me that I can get a few snapshots off on an LA7, but if I don't make the rounds count, he's going to use his excess acceleration to get around on me. Typically I avoid the LA7, but maybe I need to start just getting into the pit with one and learn from a few hard knocks. Trouble is, where there is one, there are three other LA7s and fifteen Spitfires. Hey, I appreciate your advice and trying to help me. I'm all ears on this stuff and I'm actually here for the challenge of success.

Tac · « **Reply #86 on:** May 29, 2002, 09:34:37 PM »

oh yuck. f4u-1.

Flat sciscor then man. Or barrel roll 'em. hehe.

Steven · « **Reply #87 on:** May 29, 2002, 09:48:08 PM »

Tac,

After posting that last msg I went in for a flight in the MA and encountered a low LA7. I got film of the encounter if you want to look. You won't be able to feel it, but you'll see that I scissor an LA7 and get SLOW! Once slow, I can't do much. I'm successful in this endeavor and he leaves me, but he does it with his acceleration and just points the nose up and leaves whereas I can barely keep my nose on the horizon. Had it not been such a furball, he would've stayed with me but smart man didn't want to get slow. I finally chased his tailpipe and got him though. Anyway, if you want to see what happens in a scissors with an LA7, I got film for you and let me know if interested, I can e-mail it to you. Anyway, thanks again for your tips.

Innominate · « **Reply #88 on:** May 30, 2002, 12:51:12 AM »

f4u is an easy snack for an la7 on the deck.
Unless you have a huge e advantage, the la7 needs to seriously screw up to die. If you're in an f4u, on the deck, with an la7 who isnt a horrible pilot on your six, you'd might as well just lawndart.

Samm · « **Reply #89 on:** May 30, 2002, 04:05:14 AM »

I didn't say majority of perk planes . Of course it doesn't do everything better than the majority of the perk planes . You said it is equal or better than some of the perk planes, so it appears you agree with me . If someone needs pursuading that it is as good a fighter as some of the perk planes I'm not going to waste my time on them . Don't try to teach a pig to sing .

Lol tac still says the la5 is much better but he's in favor of perking the la7 not the la5 .

So you are arguing that the ta152 and chog is better than the la7, I knew somebody would try . Remember keep it real .