Author Topic: Serious question (Read 3051 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #150 on:** June 05, 2002, 04:49:01 AM »

Urchin,

You are right that some aircraft are just not viable, and are made so by other aircraft, in the MA. It all depends on where HTC wants to put the marker. If the marker was in 1940 or 41 then the Spitfire Mk IX would need to be perked. HTC seems to have placed it in mid-late-1944 (Spitfire Mk XIV and Me262 aside).

You are also correct that the Spitfire Mk IX is worse for the Bf109E-4 than the Me262 is for the Spitfire Mk IX. That, however, is simply where the performance characteristics of the aircraft being discussed fell and nothing can be done about it without intentionally mismodeling them.

(My roommate holds that with a little practice one could easily get to the point where you'd always hit with the Me262, even a break turning A6M or Spitfire. I've gone over it with him repeatedly, but he simply takes my insistance that he is underestimating the effectiveness of the Spitfire's breakturn by saying that as a Spitfire fan I overestimate its capabilities.)

I don't think that perking the 1942 Spitfire Mk IX would help the MA in any way. It would change the aircraft people choose to fly, but not to the more interesting mid and early war aircraft. The Spitfire Mk IX fliers would simply move on to the Spitfire Mk V (Spit fans) and the other aircraft perceived as "best" (power fans). Then the cycle would start all over again.

Urchin · « **Reply #151 on:** June 05, 2002, 04:49:26 AM »

And let me clarify what really IS my position. Do I think the N1K2's or Spit's or even the LA7 need to be perked? No. I feel that the La7 DOES give a performance advantage, but I don't think it needs to be perked. I don't even think the Spits (any of them, except the Spit XIV) give a significant performance advantage over any plane except the early war planes - any of the 1943-1945 planes are fast enough that they honestly render the Spit or N1K2 ineffective. Furthermore, I don't even think the Spit XIV gives a large enough performance advantage over the un-perked planes to be worth 60 points (especially with the 'gang-bang me' icon). And actually.. I think the Spitfire IX we have NOW isn't good enough, nor is it really a representative of the 'real' Spit IX. I'd like HTC to put in the Spit IX LF- since they made up the VAST majority of Spit IX production, and they'd fit in better with the low altitude fighting that is most common in Aces High.

Do I agree with Mandoble that there are Spits all over the place? No, not really. Do I think he should be ridiculed for posting his OPINIONS? No.. not really. Do I think he should be told he has an invalid argument by people who ALSO have an invalid argument, logically? No.. not really.

That is my position.

Karnak · « **Reply #152 on:** June 05, 2002, 04:58:56 AM »

Urchin,

I do recall conversations and I at least knew that you were not advocating the perking of these things.

My objection to MANDOBLE goes back a long ways as he has been on this crusade for quite some time. Tumor is a recent addition.

I can certainly empathize with them about being constantly riddiculed because of the aircraft they choose to fly though.

How many times do we really need to hear terms like:

"Luftwhiner"
"Spitdweeb"
"Luftwaffle"
"Shitfire"
"Barbiefire"

Ect, ect?

Fester' · « **Reply #153 on:** June 05, 2002, 06:05:30 AM »

HOly toejam Urchin, did you take a breath when you typed that?

Im completely confused by your rant. I got somewhere in there that I was "Cool" now. My mother will be happy, she always thought I was a dork. Thank you for the compliment. The rest was kind of rambling and Im too tired to decipher it.

For lack of anything better to say, why dont I buy you, Tumor and Mandnoble a beer sometime and we call it square?

And for what it's worth I fly a P-38... badly

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #154 on:** June 05, 2002, 06:38:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
What kind of damn advantage do you need?

At least in my case, I'm not looking for any kind of advantage, just trying to have a more diversified MA, no matter if the overused is the Spit or the 190.

You may accept it or not, but out of about 50 fighters, only 4 or 5 types cover more than 50% usage. IMO this is not good for MA. Some people ask for a RPS, some other to extend the perk system to overused planes (me), some others to let these overused planes free only the first week of the month, some others to let them free only the first weeks after a new player has joined AH, some others to build up specific factories per plane type so we can bomb them and negate the usage of that plane.

The next is my opinnion and my experience:
Along my entire online play, I've never had an interesting combat against any type of spit, all are the same thing for me whatever I fly: 190A, 190D, 109, 110, P51, P47 ... Rarely, I've had good fights against N1K2s, but NEVER against spits. They are mostly boring, no matter whether they are easy to kill or not, just the same turn-till-puke/zoom-til-moon/spray-til-boom story over'n over. At the same time they are overused and that implies, for me, a boring MA most of the times.

Karnak, you and others failed to understand my POV over'n over along the time. This is not a matter of perking the S P I T, this is a matter of perking any plane that becomes too common. It has been said before in a lot of threads to add some perks to the N planes in top of usage list (above a minimum %) and recalculate these perks periodically (once every three days?). Today Spit may be perked and spit pilots move to (for example) C205 (25%), N1K2 (25%) and 190A5(50%). Three days later spit becomes unperked again and of the other three planes 190A5 becomes perked, the 25% that switched to 205 are more than happy with that plane (unknown by them till that moment) and keep with it, some n1k2 and 190A5 pilots return to use the spit some others switch to another ride and so on.

IMO, this is better than just having a bunch of planes perpetually perked.

Czpetr · « **Reply #155 on:** June 05, 2002, 07:43:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE

...... Along my entire online play, I've never had an interesting combat against any type of spit, all are the same thing for me whatever I fly: 190A, 190D, 109, 110, P51, P47 ... Rarely, I've had good fights against N1K2s, but NEVER against spits. They are mostly boring, no matter whether they are easy to kill or not, just the same turn-till-puke/zoom-til-moon/spray-til-boom story over'n over. At the same time they are overused and that implies, for me, a boring MA most of the times......

What should you consider as "interesting combat against spit"? How more "interesting" can Spit fight with your boom´n´zoom style?

czpetr

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #156 on:** June 05, 2002, 07:52:40 AM »

Do you know my style?

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #157 on:** June 05, 2002, 07:58:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Deja... I got 19.89% for the spits and 12.89% for the 109s and 190s... how could we get different results for something as simple as addition?

Spit IX = 10.91
Spit V = 4.87
Seafire = 3.57
Spit I = .29
Spit XIV= .25

Total = 19.89%

109G-10 = 3.37
190D-9 = 3.07
190A-8 = 1.87
190A-5 = 1.80
109G-6 = 1.03
109F-4 = .68
109G-2 = .64
190F-8 = .15
Ta-152 = .15
109E-4 = .13

Total = 12.89%

12.89/19.89 = .648, or roughly 64.8% ( i think). Or, 19.89/12.89= 1.543, or roughly 154.3%. So the Spits are roughly 1.5 times more common than a 190 or 109, or the 109s and 190s are almost 2/3s as common... depending on your way of saying it .

I think I got all that right. Either way... it isn't exactly a SMALL difference, so acting like Tac is a moron for saying what he said doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

My mistake.. I added the 110G-2 in there with 2.01%

Doesn't really matter though. 19 kills vs 13 kills still...

Its not a drastically different picture. Then again... for every 100 planes someone sees, 81 will not be a spit... and 87 will not be LW.

Its amazing how someone can turn 20% into "all I ever see..." and 13% into "I never see..."

AKDejaVu

straffo · « **Reply #158 on:** June 05, 2002, 08:05:53 AM »

This discution is going nowhere it just look like the unbalanced arena threads...

If you are fighting the bishcuit when most of the 2 TAF member are online it is likely that you will encounter lot of RAF iron ...

But if you fight the Knit at the same hour you will face a lot of LW plane...

So if you are tired of fighting allway the same kind of oponent either change front line/country/time...

DES · « **Reply #159 on:** June 05, 2002, 08:29:56 AM »

I wonder how many would do like myself and cancel their account if their favorite plane gets perked? The only planes that need perked are the jets. I was here when the chog was perked and thought that was stupid and still do. Just fly what you want is my theory it's your $15.

DES

Czpetr · « **Reply #160 on:** June 05, 2002, 08:34:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Do you know my style?

Every time I had a chance to see your fighting, it was always the same: dive from altitude, kill everything what is not fast or careful enough to turn away from your gunsight, then reverse in safe altitude and look for other victims. If it`s not boom´n´zoom, than sorry. If it`s not your usual style, then sorry.

~~czpetr~~

Kieran · « **Reply #161 on:** June 05, 2002, 09:24:06 AM »

Man, it is easy to misunderstand your point of view because you say so many things at once.

You say there are too many Spits (arguable as it is an opinion, not supported by stats).

You insinuate they have something wrong with their flight model that gives them an advantage (again, there doesn't appear to be any data to confirm this, nor do these planes seem difficult to deal with in the arena).

You complain about the "spray-n-pray" people that fly them (sure there are, but aren't there just as many American and LW iron pilots who do the same, except with a lot more ammo?).

The only thing that is clear about your point of view is you want planes removed, and you don't seem to care how you get it done. You have been most vocal about Spitfires, but you have hinted at your perception of perkability for other planes such as (surprise) the Nikki, La7, F6F and YAK (why in the heck would the F6F and Yak be perk worthy?!).

Now if I look at all the planes you seem to want removed, what do I see? Why, every one of those planes will give an Fw pilot fits in a low furball. Every one of those planes approaches parity with the Fw in some way or another. That to me suggests an agenda.

Why not ask to perk the P-51D or Fw190D9? There are a lot more of them in the arena than Yaks or F6Fs. Why not perk F4U-1Ds or Typhoons, same thing? Why not perk 109s, of which there are definitely more than Yaks or F6Fs? See? You complain you want to see more variety, but your targets for perking are not based on that goal. It's more correct to say there are certain planes in the environment you don't want to see.

DmdNexus · « **Reply #162 on:** June 05, 2002, 10:08:18 AM »

None of you have addressed the real problem with the La7, N1K1, and Spit dweebs.

They all wear flourescent pink beanie caps - the ones with the propellar's on top.

This behavior is extremely distracting me as I'm LMFAO during the engagement, often times resulting in pepsi squirting from my nose all over the monitor making it impossible to see.

This "beanie" cheat creates an undue advantage.

I propose that "Beanie" caps be banned, or else be perked severely.

Karnak · « **Reply #163 on:** June 05, 2002, 10:19:50 AM »

MANDOBLE,

Pick some numbers and stick with them, and support your numbers. Right now your bouncing all over the place.

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
You may accept it or not, but out of about 50 fighters, only 4 or 5 types cover more than 50% usage. IMO this is not good for MA.

As has been demonstrated, out of those 50 or so fighters, no single fighter accounts for more than what, 10%? 11%? All Spitfires account for 19%, and that's lumping 4 fighters together. If the most common aircraft in AH, the Spit IX accounts for no more that 11-12%, you're going to have more like 6-9 aircraft accounting for 50%, not 4-5.

And that line of reasoning, counting only fighters, ignores the diversity that bombers, GVs and boats bring to the MA.

Nifty · « **Reply #164 on:** June 05, 2002, 10:24:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DmdNexus
None of you have addressed the real problem with the La7, N1K1, and Spit dweebs.

They all wear flourescent pink beanie caps - the ones with the propellar's on top.

This behavior is extremely distracting me as I'm LMFAO during the engagement, often times resulting in pepsi squirting from my nose all over the monitor making it impossible to see.

This "beanie" cheat creates an undue advantage.

I propose that "Beanie" caps be banned, or else be perked severely.

All I was told is I had to wear pink panties while flying the Spitfire. As they were extremely more comfortable than the leather undies that Wilbus informed me I'd be wearing if I flew LW iron, I gladly pull on the panties and get in my Dweebfire! Maybe I should switch to boxers and fly USN stuff...