Author Topic: Why they dont stay...  (Read 2553 times)

Offline Vila

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2000, 06:52:00 PM »
Cabby,

I have NO DOUBT you and your squaddies find WB to be more fun for you... for whatever reason.  I also DON'T find it suprising that those who go to a WB con would prefer WB. BUT, you still have no basis for your claim that MOST AH players would rather play WB if it weren't for the price.  No basis at all other than your opinion.

That's backed up by the fact that you're amazed that I'm paying to play here instead being in WB for free.  Somehow you can't understand why I would do that... and that explains your position.

What I'm saying is that you need to acknowledge that your pronouncements are based on your opinion, and not on some objective truth of the matter.

Vila

Offline Daff

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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2000, 07:23:00 PM »
I fly WB for free AND pay for AH :P
(Although I havent flown AH since the WW2 Arena started in WB).

 
Daff

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funked

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2000, 07:39:00 PM »
Damn Cabby I didn't know WB was more fun.  Thanks for telling me bud!

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2000, 01:46:00 AM »
I remember the price fights on AGW when I first started flying Warbirds.

I was an advocate for lower pricing. Not necessarily Flat Rate, just cheaper, although I leaned more towards flat rate.

Many people stood up, and yelled "Flat Rate means DWEEBERY! If you aren't dedicated enough to pay the price, hit the streets, dweeb!"

Now you people are claiming the same thing even though there is a flat rate plan in place. It took me a short while to see the logic in that. But I DO agree, lower the price=lower standard of participants. Period.

Warbirds has a 9.95 a month unlimited plan in the ACA, they scream at trainers who offer help, on the edge of verbal abuse. Not dweebs, just salamanders, basically. Fine guys who offer their time and efforts to say "Anyone need some help?" and get verbally slaughtered. You want this in Aces High's arenas? I doubt you do.

What it comes down to is QUALITY. When AH went pay for play, I headed back to warbirds. There were issues, that I PERSONALLY, felt were important, that HTC feels is too petty to fix. This kills the immersion factors for me.

Clipping Issues - alot of bleed over from warbirds type bugs, many new ones. In the H2H version of AH, dots are visible behind mountains. Bottom gunner on the B-17. I remember thinking "Pay for Play?!?! The B-17 still look like crap! And now they wanna charge for it? NOT!"

Flight models - in my opinion, not as good. You people used to claim they were better than Warbirds, nothings changed in their design, but now they're not as good? And are now going to be made closer to WB.

Price - Its mainly not worth $30 a month to me, lack of that "worth it" feeling, and back then I wasn't spending much time in sims and wasn't going to spend 30 bux worth of time online.

There's more, but its been awhile since I've played AH...

Ol well...

That just my opinion, and I don't care if its wrong.

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2000, 02:20:00 AM »
I never in my whole life had so much fun for 30 dollar.

Mine first online flightsimming experience was 2 years ago with EAW. After 1,5 years i got AH from hearings off squad members.
I was very anoyed in the MA my first 2 weeks
and many out off the eaw community did also.
Right now i still try too convince squad members. But after playing EAW for free and a totaly new hard FM it is very hard.

I got my hopes on 1.04 now because a lot off them give it another look than.

Yep it's worth 30 dollar a month but younger members will not have a creditcard unfortunally.

I hope it will be somewhat cheaper in the future but now i think HTC must survive for 1 or 2 years than everything will be better for them.


Offline Jekyll

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2000, 05:45:00 AM »
 
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If you were playing it for free you werent playing the whole game

FYI narsus, Vila was a WB trainer, and one of the hottest sticks around.

Trainers fly on free accounts.

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Offline Hangtime

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2000, 07:20:00 AM »
My cat likes AW.  

Hang

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...at home, or abroad.

Offline Westy

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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2000, 08:11:00 AM »
 Hang, so does my 4 year old son!!! What are the odds?  

-Westy

vadr

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2000, 09:30:00 AM »
Interesting thread, it would be nice to get it back on-topic.

Cabby, whassup bro? No need for that kind of rabid animosity here (or on AGW).

Anyone who compares AH to WB in this context is doing apples and oranges, IMO. AH is still in the very early stages of it's development (did anyone forget that?) and has all the same warts that any Sim has at this stage of it's life.

WB is a mature (stagnant?) Sim with a lot more planes, arenas, events, etc. Given time (say, 6 months? a year?), I don't think there will be much to choose from between the two as far as amenities and value-added features go.

The original question, and a darned good one, is what can and should be done to reduce customer turnover. It is quite high for this Sim, I think.

However, there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. This isn't so much about drastic changes or basic flaws as it is about development priorities and what needs to be done first to retain customers.



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Offline Vila

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2000, 10:21:00 AM »
Well, I haven't done any legitimate research on this, but thing that strikes me in AH is that I meet up with very few "raw newbie" types.

Very few pilots I meet up with show NO ACM ability, most are at least seem familiar with the basics.  What this means, is that it is HARD for a newbie to develop in this community.

I remember when I first started playing Warbirds.... msost of the pilots I flew with were new to the on-line simming world.  They, like I, were learning to fly and fight online for the first time.  The vets that came from AW were fairly dominant at first,  but as the game developed, I saw a general improvment in the overall quality of the online pilots, especially once I became a trainer.  When I first became a trainer, I spent probably 80-90% of my time training guys who were RAW, and I mean mean RAW.  There were folks where I would literally put my plane on auto-trim and let em empty there guns at me, and I wouldn't take any damage.  But that changed.  By the time I retired from the WB training corps, I spent 70-80% of my time teaching more advanced subjects.  Clearly, the community had matured significantly.  I felt this not only in the Training Arena, but in the MA as well.  It became harder and harder to score well as the community matured and gained experience.

I feel this same thing in AH.  I sense that the average experience of the pilots here is quite high.  Couple this with the fact that balanced fights can be hard to come by in the arena and it can seem an unfriendly place to newbies, particularly when some of the more well-know "Shmack talkers" talk shamck to a guy who may be totally clueless, but is trying to learn.

I'd love to see the stats on the guys who are leaving quickly from the game.  My sense is that they are getting PASTED, and after their 2 free weeks, figure it's not worth being a target drone for $30/mo.

What's the solution?  Well, some of the things that HT is putting in MIGHT encourage some of these folks to stay, but it won't make up for the baby seal clubbings really.  The only thing I can really think of, is to establish a "newbie" arena that is available FREE for 90 days from the opening of the account.  This arena would be inaccessable after 90 days.  In addition, I'd start the the 2 week clock on the main arena after the first time a flyer enters it.  Add appropraite dialogues when enetering to make it clear that the MA is available for only 2 weeks form the time you first enter to avoid confusion.  Further, I'd staff the newbie arena with a couple trainers to provide some leadership, answer questions, whatever.  Also, limit the newbie arena to 2 sides (and maybe a smaller plane set?) to help focus things.  

My hope would be that this arena would let the newbies get their feet wet, without being subjected to the utter shellacking they would get in the MA.  90 days is a MUCH more reasonable time to figure out the basics of flying a WWII plane than 2 weeks.  Heck, when I joined WB, it took two weeks to figure out what that loud buzzing was!    Thankfully, I got into WB when it was in open beta, so I had plenty of "free" time to get comfy before plunking down my Credit Card.

Vila

Offline Ripsnort

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2000, 10:26:00 AM »
Many of us were 'training' other newbie pilots before  the training corp was even active in WB's.  For instance, in VF-101 Grim Reapers, AC was our CO, however, he pointed the new members to my door, which I spent many-a-hour training newbies  that  had little or no flight sim experience as Vila mentioned above. Some had experience, EMAN, SWIT, a few others.

While a trainer in AH, I noticed that most wanted to know the quirks of certain A/C type, I don't believe I ever had a brand spanking new pilot to online sims in my stint.

Concur with ya Vila.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-06-2000).]

Offline -lynx-

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2000, 10:26:00 AM »
Again - what vila said.

As a matter of fact, AH is more expensive for me than WB was during last months I was flying it. I don't like shedload of things in AH but on the immersion front (IMHO) it's way superior to WB and I can also see it moving, developing, trying things - I'd like to think that I'm supporting something alive with my $$.

WB (IMHO again) is dead - it hasn't changed in over a year. When WBIII comes out we'll see if there was something behind claims of the development team. For the time being AH is not standing still either.

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Offline Revvin

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2000, 11:30:00 AM »
 
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Revvin: You are the LAST person to talk about "rationality."

LOL whats up Cabby? not got the other cheerleaders from AGW with you? you lurk here like some bunny boiling stalker waiting to jump on anyone who dares critisise WB. WB and AH are bloody games for crying out loud so lets drop the cult worship?

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2000, 11:38:00 AM »
It just dawned on me that alot may stay in their existing software due to comfort zones, ego's, and noterieity(sp).  I.E., they'd have to learn the in's and outs of a new flight sim, as well as new keyboard commands.  That means that they may get shot down more often than in exiting flight sims they fly.  Pride is a tough thing to swallow for those with mega-doses of testosterone.  And, since AH is made up of several communities, they may not be recognized by all when they log in, again, a 'pride' factor.  Most of  this behavior takes place at a subliminal level, so they can't even self evaluate their intentions when trying something new, they get disgusted easy, find petty excuses of the shortcomings ' and move on.

Just ramblin' here I guess, I work with so many that hate  new technology in the work place, and something new requires a learning curve, something alot of folks prefer not to do.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-06-2000).]

Offline easymo

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Why they dont stay...
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2000, 11:39:00 AM »
 Like WB, the trainers arent in the right place.

 I see some very raw ones in h2h. Often there only message is " Why wont this Fu&*&^% thing quit spinning" and they exit before I can say hit the x key, and lets talk about it.

 People are often shy when they are new, but dont want to admit they need help. So they get there backs up instead. A trainer in an H2H arena, called OPEN TRAINING might be a welcome mat for this game.

 I do what I can for them. And I have thought about doing it myself. But lets face it. Would you want someone like me training you ?