Author Topic: furball island... why not? (Read 7263 times)

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2001, 11:17:00 PM »

LOL EAGL!

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That would encourage furballing (well, duh)

I never said this.. and didn't deny it. What I'm saying is furballing already exists. What is the need?

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You can already find furballs if you only look hard enough.

Look hard enough? What the hell does that mean? Dude.. have you been in the MA at all since 1.05? Look hard? How about just "look". They are everywhere.

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You should take your air combat to another arena.

Ah.. good one. How about "We have air combat.. what is it you are trying to fix?". Just who is getting in the way of you and your definition of air combat right now? Those pesky guys that bombed a fuel dump? Those bad bad bombers? Those flak panzers that ALWAYS pop up at enemy fields? Who?

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If you just want to dogfight, "trust me" you'll be happier playing it H2H.

Be happier? Never said that. Be no different.. that's more the point. And you won't skew one side's count by deciding not to participate in their silly little war.

You could furball in the current MA. Of course, some might mistake it for defense, or attacking enemy planes... but let them live in their "pretend" world. You'll know that you are only engaging in pure aircombat in its original unadultarated form.

Now.. why is it that there is a need for this island? Are people not playing the way you want them to in the MA? Would adjusting the way they are allowed to play make it more enjoyable for you? What happens when they don't play the way you want them to on furball island? Will more code and rules need to be added?

This magical island seems to simply be a scapegoat. A place where people can go and do whatever they want in a fighter and pretend that its OK because its on furball island. News flash.. you can do that in the current MA too. I just wonder why more people aren't doing it with you?

AKDejaVu

eagl · « **Reply #31 on:** February 18, 2001, 11:35:00 PM »

Suprise suprise, I've been playing 1.05 as much as I can time permitting, and the most fun I've had was near the center 3 fields. At it's best, there was a 30 plane furball going. Then a bunch of ostwinds showed up and a furball that had been going for over an hour evaporated. I searched for over an hour trying to find a furball with more than 10 people in it, and finally logged without finding anything suitable.

You are also arguing for both sides. In one post, you're afraid that too many people will go to furball island, abandoning the "good fight". Then you claim that obviously nobody wants to furball since it doesn't happen. Well, it does happen occasionally, then the ostwinds show up. Or someone bombs the field without taking it, removing one side from the fight for a while. When that happens, people log out.

8 player H2H for furballing? That's a joke right? That's merely a slightly more complicated dueling setup. 10v10 is more like it, the more the merrier. Again, what are you afraid of?

So far, I've heard ONE reason from you, and that was if people feel they're losing the arena capture war, they'll go have fun furballing and you don't want that to happen. Hmmm, you don't want people to have fun? Come on, there's gotta be a better reason. Don't use H2H as a crutch again, it's simply not suitable for a furball. Don't use the TA, it has a specific purpose that does NOT include general fighting. You have such a big chip on your shoulder against furballing that there MUST be some other reason you don't want it to happen in the same arena as your war.

Quit being exclusionary bro. It's mean.

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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

Hangtime · « **Reply #32 on:** February 18, 2001, 11:43:00 PM »

Sure.. bring on Furball Central.

I'd like to see a new terrain layout to help isolate it from the strat game, it's fields not considered in the reset count, assetts inestructable; fuel rectricted, no troops, no buffs, etc. Hell; stick an RPS planeset on it's fields, make it even more interesting.

Some possible negatives.. comms! mebbe a bit confusing whit 2 levels of dialouge common, tough but necessary becuse the furball guys might like to join in on strat missions if the layout or makeup is to their liking.. furballing gets boring too.

'Desertions'.. lol I could see hard core strat guys getting indignant when the situation gets bleek and the country is forced into a 2 field box, gettin vulched... and the crews desert fer some peace and quiet in the furball haven.

Of course.. should a country lose it's strat assets; dars etc, I think it only reasonabe that the strat assets like radar outage and fuel shortages affect that countrys furball islanders. Hehehhhhee.. they don't wanna help?? Then fek 'em I say; blind them too.

Furball Island may well be a bad idea just from the standpoint of friction amonsgst countrymen in time of dire need.. but that alone is not reason enuff not to TRY it.. hell; mebbe it'll be the a huge success.

A soultion that's inclusionary rather than exclusionary begs for something like Furball Island to be attempted. If the idea is to maximise MA attendance; preserve subcriptions and engender new subscribers, a single arena with terrain to accomodate both strat and instant action flying styles makes a lot of sense.

Question is; will it encourage divisivness in-country? Hate and discontent in the ranks makes strat impossible or unpleasant at best. Will Fighter Island kill strat? Could be... still wanna try it tho.

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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders" << Recruiting!!
"Turn to kill, not to engage."
Commander 'Willie' Driscoll, USNR

[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 02-18-2001).]

eagl · « **Reply #33 on:** February 18, 2001, 11:56:00 PM »

Clarification:

I don't want to change the nature of the MA. I don't want an isolated region with 3 indestructable fields located away from the rest of the arena. I don't want any huge changes made.

I was very pleased to find in the current terrain a few fields that encouraged quick combat. In my opinion however, the presence of ground vehicles directly detracts from what HTC appeared to be trying to do, namely encourage people who want a quicker combat fix to fly in that region.

My suggestion is to remove ground vehicles to keep them from ruining perfectly good aircraft vs. aircraft fights. Slightly increase light AAA presence at these fields to discourage vulching. POSSIBLY increase hardness or something to make it tougher to actually capture one of these fields, although that would adversely affect the overall war in that all fields must be capturable and I don't know if it's possible to separate one field in a country and not make it count towards capture.

Some are asking for a dedicated furball island with the situation specifically set up for the express purpose of furballing. I'm sure there's a compromise in there somewhere. Crying foul, doom and gloom, the sky is falling and all that, doesn't seem fair especially since the ideas coming out for a furball island are primarly positive things (wouldn't it be neat if...) rather than negative (this sucks because...)

DejaVu, I'm directing this at you primarly because you are the one directly calling for an arena that excludes people who like to furball. Personally, I like the idea that I could log into an arena, and in-between dogfights, hear a call from a friend for escorts, and help him fly a strike mission. Or see a bomber cruise by and decide to chase him down and try to kill him. I don't want endless furballs to the exclusion of all else, because I find that just as boring as an arena where furballs are very rare. Lets have an arena where we can get both kinds of fun. It's pretty close right now IMHO, but it could be better. Making it better seemed to be the point of lazs post in the first place.

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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2001, 12:05:00 AM »

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DejaVu, I'm directing this at you primarly because you are the one directly calling for an arena that excludes people who like to furball.

That's complete and total roadkill eagl. TOTAL roadkill.

Excludes people? Hmmmm. I'm not trying to set up bases that exclude ground vehicles, bommbers and so forth.

Furballs exist right now. I'm not trying to rid the arena of them. Its not my goal.

Just don't want to see what is being proposed here implimented. Its too quake-like.

AKDejaVu

SKurj · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2001, 12:08:00 AM »

I don't have a problem with the idea, my biggest beef with the center island at the moment is that the airbases are at sea level while attacking GV's have the advantage of attacking from elevation!
The furball island should look after the GV's as well IMO, or we'll just hear calls for dedicated landwarrior area as well. make all the bases on furball isle unkillable, ack unstrafeable, remove 88's permit all gv's, all aircraft, all ord. Hell givem a 4 grid city right in the middle with some tall buildings to fly/drive around, maybe make the city captureable as a bonus.
A real armored fight at a city type area has yet to be seen in AH i think

SKurj

Hey Crimson Skies!!! +) well i think it would be a blast.

easymo · « **Reply #36 on:** February 19, 2001, 12:58:00 AM »

Let me ask a question of the nay sayers.

If VW2OL see's the light of day, what happens to the strat guys? Why a Tanker would pay 3 times as much, for a less realistic Tank game is beyond me. Same with bomber fans, and eventually Navy fans. The only thing I've seen over there that is less promising for AH fans, is the early war planeset. I think listening to the furballers might be good sense.

Jekyll · « **Reply #37 on:** February 19, 2001, 12:59:00 AM »

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DejaVu, I'm directing this at you primarly because you are the one directly calling for an arena that excludes people who like to furball.

I have to agree with Dejavu here.... roadkill eagl. It is in fact the advocates of the furball island who are being exclusionary. YOU want to exclude buff drivers, vehicle drivers and anyone who wants to do more than mindlessly furball at 5k feet!

And yet at the same time you want to make sure that your endless furballing earns fighter perk points, right? Lazs, the great opponent of the perk system, wants an island where you cannot earn bomber, attack or vehicle perks, but you can sure still earn fighter perks. Well duh! If bombers and vehicles are disabled.. how the hell would you earn bomber or vehicle perks in the first place? If structures are indestructible, how would you earn attack perks?

Over the past months we've heard these great supporters of furball argue against an HA, on the grounds that it is 'divisive' for the community.

HELLO! WTF do you think a furball island is? If you're a rook and down to your last couple of fields, BH's are down and you absolutely suck in a fighter... well log off! Don't even THINK of coming to the centre island because you are not welcome there!

And of course, if your interests lie more on the 'sim' rather than 'game' side of the spectrum .. well you're out of luck entirely!

Easymo... you've also got a really good point there. What DOES happen if WW2OL succeeds? Will even fighter drivers be prepared to pay 3 times as much for a late-war/fantasy planeset with BFGs?

Will the future of AH become a kind of MMOG 'Crimson Skies'? We've already got some aspects of the flight model for it .. perhaps we could just go the whole hog and give every aircraft the turning performance of a Ki43, the acceleration and climb of a 109G-10, and the guns of the Chog with unlimited ammo. Maybe have armour powerups hanging at 5k over the airfields?

The 'community' of flight 'gamers/simmers' probably cannot support 5 MMOG flight sims, FA, AW, WB, AH and WW2OL. AH presently sits about 'middle of the road' with respect to accuracy and authenticity. Maybe they should just go to the far end of the spectrum to guarantee their market?

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 02-19-2001).]

easymo · « **Reply #38 on:** February 19, 2001, 02:05:00 AM »

I dont follow the logic. Late war planes DID have BFG, inspite of what they might say at AGW.

And if they got rid of the auto trim buttons, that would take care of most of the bomber fan problem.

Lephturn · « **Reply #39 on:** February 19, 2001, 07:15:00 AM »

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I have to agree with Dejavu here.... roadkill eagl. It is in fact the advocates of the furball island who are being exclusionary. YOU want to exclude buff drivers, vehicle drivers and anyone who wants to do more than mindlessly furball at 5k feet!

The strat system excludes players who want to find a quick fight by destroying infrastructure in the game. Even so, the only vehicle looking to be excluded is the Osty, and even that could be taken care of by simply only allowing them to spawn at the airfields.

Don't bring the HA into this. I would love to see an HA. There is no "argument" against it, the simple fact is that HTC won't even consider doing it until there are a great deal more players online.

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HELLO! WTF do you think a furball island is? If you're a rook and down to your last couple of fields, BH's are down and you absolutely suck in a fighter... well log off! Don't even THINK of coming to the centre island because you are not welcome there!

Oh, so because we can't shelter buff drivers from the strat system, we shouldn't try to shelter anyone else? At least if there was a furball island, there would be SOME choice other than to log off. In fact you made my point pretty well. In the situation you mention, the Buff pilot has to log off or fly fighters anyway... that's no different from what we have now. My point is that with furball island, at least the option to go launch a fighter would exist, and folks would have SOME alternative to logging off. It may not be reasonable to fly a buff, but at least you can do something. I fail to see how offering a fighter pilot in the same position a chance to do something other than log off is so injurious to the rest of the arena.

The point is, the situations I outlined above cause people to log off. Anybody disputing that? Now, how can we avoid that? I think something like this could have the desired effect. I also don't see how it would harm the rest of the arena.

I must admit I'm surprised at the objections. Hangtime made some good points, but I'm still waiting to hear why this would be such a bad thing.

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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
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Ice · « **Reply #40 on:** February 19, 2001, 09:43:00 AM »

Some of you may remember AWDOS's PAC Arena where the atoll located in the middle of the arena was where some of the best fighting occured.

Strat was still present for those who wished to muster sorties deep into enemy territory, while those who wished for more of a pure fighter vs. fighter engagement, hunted the atoll area.

HTC seems to prefer us to fight the total fight, both strat and fighter...the ranking system dictates that those who fly and participate in everything will benefit. I believe if they preferred this fighter island concept, we would already have it.

I personally enjoyed the old AWDOS PAC arena...even the ETO arena had a center area where many could find that fighter vs. fighter enviroment.

We obviously, as a community, do not share the same likes and dislikes...hopefully the new arena forthcoming will meet everyones needs to a greater extent.

Ice

Ripsnort · « **Reply #41 on:** February 19, 2001, 09:59:00 AM »

When someone in my countrymen call for a strike on a neighboring field on 'Furball Island'...I basically tell them to go ahead and do it, but those who are 'tactically' thinking will not do so...that island is good for one thing, furballing and tanking, and it does have its purpose here, the map has plenty of strat for those who want it, and has 'Furball Island' for those who want something fast and furious...personally, I like both places, depending on my mood.

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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-19-2001).]

popeye · « **Reply #42 on:** February 19, 2001, 10:33:00 AM »

Yeah, I remember the Atoll in AWDOS -- a near constant furball. In fact, there were plenty of times when I would help the enemy capture one of the fields so everyone could jump in the fight.

It was lots of fun there, can't see why it wouldn't be in AH.

lazs · « **Reply #43 on:** February 19, 2001, 10:34:00 AM »

Ok, so far...
The people who actually care about furballs feel the new strat focus is ruining their time on AH. The strat guys are removing resources or outright capturing any field that is usefull to us. This is not an "illusion".

The game is less fun for squads that are not "mission" oriented. The squad can no longer engage as a squad because they are spred all over the map. In order to fly together they have to wait in the tower untill all squaddies are ded or RTB. This is not our imagination.

The only real arguement against furball island is a non arguement... People will not foolishly defend (get vulched at) the last few fields. Waaaa??? Most don't now... Why should they? At worst... The "war" would be over when it was nothing but vultch fields left. What would be wrong with that? I mean, who can take off in a bomber or C47 from one of those fields anyway?

Different coms? Why? NP. Fighter perks only? What's the problem? That's all most of the furballers ever earn anyway and shouldn't they get fighter perks for doing fighter work? Personally I am going to sell mine on ebay anyway to some perkjerk. If they are weasel enough to fly one they are weasel enough to buy one i say.

The real reason is still FEAR... The strat weenies have finally forced the arena into what they want. They don't care if anyone is having fun so long as they get their way. In fact.... They violently oppose any CHOICE.. They fear that if not forced... People will not play with em... just like when they were kids. I'm sure all reading the protests can see this.

Furball island is about choice for styles. No style is left out or discouraged. There really is choice not an illussion of one. It affects the strat game not a whit and "furballers" or "strat" is not an absolute.... It is not either or.... some people furball and strat.. they could jump back and forth seamlessly as one or the other gets stale...

Furball island does not seek to "force" people to furball. It only offers a fair (for everyone) choice.
lazs

sling322 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 19, 2001, 11:10:00 AM »

I used to be one of the "anti-furball" crowd...now I am more of the "let-em-do-what-they-want" crowd. I am more prone to jumping into fighting and furballing when the feeling comes over me than I was before. I still enjoy the strat game also. The only thing about this "Furball Island" thing that I am hearing that I dont like is the bases being undamageable. What happens when a country is down to a few bases and the reset is imminent? Since furball island is undamageable, what will stop everyone from just loading up with full fuel tanks regardless of what situation their "country" is in and flying anywhere on the map? Maybe I am not seeing the whole picture of furball island clearly, but I dont see why they need a separate undestructable area to furball in. I have never had a problem finding a furballin a short amount of time when I want one in.