furball island... why not?

[SOB]

I think a great comprimise would be to disable osties & ordinance on the center island.  Great plane battles & great tank battles could co-exist.

I can't figure out what everyone's getting so upset about.  Try it and see what happens.  I think the current MA is great, but when I feel the furballing mood coming on, I head strait for the middle isle.


SOB

BTW...Jekyll, the more posts I read from you the more I wonder...Why do you even play AH?  You really seem to dislike it.  (this has nothing to do with the furball island topic...you just always seem to have a great distain for what is currently happening or for what is coming in AH)

[lazs]

Ok, the reason we can't have a island dedicated to melees is.... Because people will go there instead of putting up with being vultched or loggintg like real men.

Look... furballers don't really care about bases except for distance and most dedicated furballers know that the best fights don't happen at the bases but BETWEEN em.   If there is a 1-3 min flight to an area between the oppossing fields then the fight is concentrated.   If there is a 5 min flight then the fight is spred out and there is no cohesive squad action or large furs.  

We don't really care much if we make it to the enemy base... We don't even cary bombs... We just want em indestructable so that some strat potato killjoy with a craving for attention doesn't lone suicide bomb it to worthlesness and ruin everyones fun.

As lep said, the strat potatos can ruin the game for the furballers.  The furballers are not asking to ruin anyones fun, just to have a place in the game that can't be ruined.  That is what is "fair" about furball island.

and jekyl... well, he's just an unhappy guy... probly one of those that looks at the map and goes all apopleptic when he sees people bunching up and having the "f" word... so he bombs the fighter hanger.   It's the Amish thing to do.
lazs

[Ripsnort]

 

Eagl:I don't want to take anything away from the ostwind drivers either, except for their ability to interfere with                    pure Air to Air combat in one little part of the arena. It's like bringing a baseball bat to a soccer match. Everyone's happy kicking the ball around until someone who can't play soccer shows up and starts swinging his bat at people. Next thing you know, the soccer game is over and everyone's pissed. Except
for the guy with the bat of course, 'cause he "won" by disrupting a perfectly good soccer match.

This works the other way around too, as in the center island, is a great tanking plain where great tank fights take place, it only takes a few CHOGS or bomb-laiden P38's to ruin the fun...

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-20-2001).]

[AKDejaVu]

 

Ok, the reason we can't have a island dedicated to melees is.... Because people will go there instead of putting up with being vultched or loggintg like real men.

Can't?  Hmmm... disagree with an idea and it becomes "can't have it".  As for the idea... you are running under one basic falacy.  Somehow the same people that are in the same arena will behave completely diferent on this magical island.  Nobody will hang out with a distinct advantage waiting for someone to exit their ack unbrella.  Nobody will run for ack.  Nobody will gang-bang on the island.  Somehow it is a safehouse against all this behaviour.  You are dillusional.

I love the use of the term "We" when you talk about furballs.  As in "we" vs "them".  I think you'll find your oppinion of what furball island should be is yours and yours alone.  People will agree with it in some ways, but not in others.  Some people will disagree with it in enough ways to feel it a bad idea.  That's why it is discussed.

You are not representative of furballers everywhere.  You are not their voice.  You are not "we".

AKDejaVu

[AKDejaVu]

 

I think a great comprimise would be to disable osties & ordinance on the center island. Great plane battles & great tank battles could co-exist.

If you do this, you've just created 3 incredibly captured large fields.  No osties to defend them.  The nearest feilds to most of the center island fields are not on the center island.

The question then becomes what do you have to do to ensure this islands will be the sanctuary that is being requested?  Do you make hardened targets?  Do you make these bases not count towards the war?

The thing that really gets me here, is that most of the things suggested like closer bases and no 88's means that the fights are going to occur very close to or in the ack.  No 88's means that people can hang out over enemy bases.  Close bases means ack cover is always nearby.

It seems what people need is a center island with no vehicle fields in between.  Elevated bases that are Farther away, and heavily armed.  Osties capable of launching to defend them... even more ack and 88's than they currently have to STRONGLY discourage capture.  Multiple VH's instead of one.  If these precautions aren't taken.. there is nothing to prevent capture.

One thing is for sure... no matter what you do it will be manipulated to the extreme.  A target rich environment is being created for those that really enjoy pushing the rules of the game.  The rewards for doing so will be great.

AKDejaVu

[lazs]

akdeja... you make no sense to me.   I had allready stated that the island have unmcapturable and unclosable fields.  I have allready stated that it does not count toward the (cough) "winning" of the war.  I have never even seen the "winning" of a war in AH and certainly would not hang out at the last few resource diminished fields to be vulched by a bunch of timid strat potatos in any case.

You claim that people will flee or hide into the acks on furball island... so what?   if they want to fight they will come out.   Even if it is a disaster most of the time and not used.... So what?  WHAT DOES IT HURT?  HOW DOES IT HURT YOU OR YOUR ILK?  You can just ignore it either way can't u?  

You claim that it will be a target rich environment that people will "game"..  How so?   They will only earn fighter perkies... They will have to win and survive to get em and fighter perks are small and the least easy to "game" of all the idiotic perk points we can (cough) "earn"...  Besides... It's the furballers who are least likely to game a game anyway.   Unlike you...They simply don't care.  

furballers don't want to ruin or even affect your fun... Unfortunately... the reverse is not true.   The perk jerks and strat potatos are constantly looking for a good fight to ruin.   Once they've ruined the fight they set out to ruin any chance for a fight at any surrounding fields.   Why do they do that?

Another point you bring to the table is that furballers will be in conflict over what constitutes a good furball island and flood this board with whining over the implementation.... |This complaint seems odd from a group that otherwise has total fawning faith in the powers that be to devise systems... They can make complex strat that pleases people but can't come up with something as simple as a workable furball island?   You toady on up to the idiotic, unfair, unneccessary and complex "perk" system but find furball island to controversial? LOL
lazs

[lazs]

Ok... I admit I don't see what people get out of the strat game or earning idiotic perk points.   I do know that some do and that it's not right to ruin their game... This (copied from another post) is what i get out of the game... Why do you want to ruin it for me?

look... the reason perkies and strat polorize is that I, and maybe kieren and one or two others like to
                    get into a fight. A fun fight with a lot of action and a lot of planes around. These were called "melees" in
                    the war and were quite common. They are the things most people enjoy reading about the most... for
                    us, they stretch our SA and acm and give us the rush that waiting in the tower or planning or whatever
                    doesn't

                    How strat kills this is that it causes resources to die and field to be further apart... My squad likes big
                    melees with a lot of squaddies involved... With the fields spread out and resources ded the flights to a
                    "maybe a fight and maybe not" are long and worse..... Our squad is stretched out over the entire area. If
                    we want to see more than 1 or 2 squaddies, or see em in more than passing... We have to wait in the
                    tower till all are ded or RTB.

                    With close fields many are up in the air at the same time without "down" time that the guys I know
                    hate.

                    "Spits on you" "watch the hog!" "drag him left" "in on the 47" "bring em down" "coming back toward
                    you" "shit got my engine" "i'm ded" "out ammo" "get em off me!" "draggin em up".... Rapid fire out of
                    the Roger wilco with planes and tracers everywhere... Eyes burning cause ya forgot to blink for too
                    long....

                    And you want me to trade that for ... "so how is the family"... while waiting in the tower to club some
                    defensless field into submission? rather log. bet more than a couple who never even read this board
                    agree too.
                    lazs

[AKDejaVu]

 

I had allready stated that the island have unmcapturable and unclosable fields. I have allready stated that it does not count toward the (cough) "winning" of the war.

You write as if you are the only one representing the idea.  Once again.. you are not "we".  Many people have stated many things.

 

It's the furballers who are least likely to game a game anyway. Unlike you...They simply don't care.

Erm.. what?  I do like the class distinction here Lazs.  The furballers are somehow more magically gifted in gameplay fairness?  I don't suppose any furballers have ever vulched a base before.  Nor have they attacked with numbers from a distinct advantage any other aircraft.  They are all about fairness.  Its EVERYONE else that causes the problems.

 

The perk jerks and strat potatos are constantly looking for a good fight to ruin. Once they've ruined the fight they set out to ruin any chance for a fight at any surrounding fields. Why do they do that?

Nice labels.  So.. how does it work now.  There are furballers who are noble and just want to fight?  And everyone else is a "perk jerk" or a "strat potato"?  Jeez lazs.. you need to stop labeling anyone that might argue against your belief before it even happens.

Here's a thought that you might want to try to cram into that pea brain of yours: Perk Jerks will be at furball island too.  You may even be one of them.

 

Another point you bring to the table is that furballers will be in conflict over what constitutes a good furball island and flood this board with whining over the implementation....

I guess not as long as they appoint you their leader?

 

This complaint seems odd from a group that otherwise has total fawning faith in the powers that be to devise systems...

I'm sorry.  What group is it that I have claimed to be representing again?  How many times have I used "we" when presenting MY arguments?


 

They can make complex strat that pleases people but can't come up with something as simple as a workable furball island?

Now.. who is they now?  Is this different from we and them?  So, no I have to track we, them and they.

If by they you are refering to HTC... I will say this:

I would rather see efforts dedicated to making more planes and improving aspects of the game such as rivers.  The idea of dedicating resources to duplicate something that is already possible in this game seems silly.  If you can't find a furball right now, you aren't looking at all.

 

You toady on up to the idiotic, unfair, unneccessary and complex "perk" system but find furball island to controversial?

Ok.. so you means they, them or we now?  Or does it mean me?  I'm having trouble tracking you, me, we, they and them right now.

If you mean me... I'd really like you to find where I have "toadied on up to the idiotic, unfair, unneccessary and complex "perk" system".  Oh that's right... anyone that disagrees with you on one issue must disagree with you on all issues.  Its how you stereotype into we, them and they.

AKDejaVu

[mrfish]

zeee plane! zee plane! ze...tat! tat! tat! tat!.....arghhhhhhh

- lasz fantasy island

[Lephturn]

AKDejaVu said:
 

As for the idea... you are running under one basic falacy. Somehow the same people that are in the same arena will behave completely diferent on this magical island. Nobody will hang out with a distinct advantage waiting for someone to exit their ack unbrella. Nobody will run for ack. Nobody will gang-bang on the island. Somehow it is a safehouse against all this behaviour. You are dillusional.

I don't know where you get this from, but you keep bringing it up.  I don't expect people to act ANY different.  I don't want them too, why would I?

The ONLY reason to do this is to create a place that shelters the fighers from the STRAT system... not from each other, or ack, or air combat in general.  Just a field where the strat can't close the FH, remove the fuel, and take out the acks.  That's it.  Simple.  I don't expect anything to change other than that.  It's just a place I can ALWAYS launch my fighter from, that's all.  The additional benefit is that if you place these three fields fairly close together, it will tend to be a good spot to find a quick fight.

------------------
Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome!

"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)

[AKSeaWulfe]

The only difference between this idea and playing H2H is about 40 planes, disrupting the current MA's design of game play and a lot more warping.

You enjoy that there furball island, warps and all. Oh did I mention framerate?

That and you will take away from the rest of the current arena by adding this island. Why bother flying from a different field? You can take off from a permanent sheltered field without a care in the world. You can climb to 8K without worrying about losing your ack. You duck out, kill something, duck back into the ack. Repeat as neccessary.

Lets just dumb down the flight models, make fields impossible to capture and call it the Air Combat Arena... oh wait WB has one of those for 10$/month.

-SW

[LJK Raubvogel]

So you want to exclude certain players from your own little area of the map? ROFL. Waahhhh my hangar got bombed, boohooo, some Osty shot me when I was dogfighting 500ft off the ground. No one is forcing anyone to fly at 1k looking for a fight, and no one is forcing you to fly from a field that has been bombed. However, by limiting an area of the map to fighters only and making buildings indestructible, you are restricting the choices of others.

I have to agree with Deja here, you can always find a furball if you look. If it's not what you like, you can always find one in a H2H game. But, I have never logged on and not seen at least one furball between airfields, and I most definitely play in off-peak hours.

[lazs]

well ak... I do say I and we... I know of at least a block of a dozen or so that would not object to the word "we" as representing them.  "They" was quite clear in the context it was used as was "you"  You on the other hand, (you, meaning akdeja) use the absolute term "nobody" What exactly does "nobody" mean to you?  It appears that you believe that you can look into the minds of every single person in AH and predict, with certainty, their actions.  

All of your points are lame... There is no way that a furball island will hurt your game except..... it may draw people away from the more boring game you embrace.

You use "target rich environment" like it is something to loath!   LOL!!!  I don't think that a quick poll would show that you have much of a case in thinking that even half of the people in AH would prefer less target rich.... placing my money on people prefering a target rich environment any day over sitting in the tower or flying formation or clubbing some undefended field into submission to glean a few perkies.
lazs

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
If you do this, you've just created 3 incredibly captured large fields.  No osties to defend them.  The nearest feilds to most of the center island fields are not on the center island.

The question then becomes what do you have to do to ensure this islands will be the sanctuary that is being requested?  Do you make hardened targets?  Do you make these bases not count towards the war?

The thing that really gets me here, is that most of the things suggested like closer bases and no 88's means that the fights are going to occur very close to or in the ack.  No 88's means that people can hang out over enemy bases.  Close bases means ack cover is always nearby.

It seems what people need is a center island with no vehicle fields in between.  Elevated bases that are Farther away, and heavily armed.  Osties capable of launching to defend them... even more ack and 88's than they currently have to STRONGLY discourage capture.  Multiple VH's instead of one.  If these precautions aren't taken.. there is nothing to prevent capture.

One thing is for sure... no matter what you do it will be manipulated to the extreme.  A target rich environment is being created for those that really enjoy pushing the rules of the game.  The rewards for doing so will be great.

AKDejaVu

So, how about osties available to pop up from VHs only?  My view on this whole thing is that the island is perfect for furballing now...but I can completely understand how a few osties popping up below a furball can ruin it.  I don't agree that anything should be hardened or that the 88s should be removed.  I think the fields should be the same as any other field on the map and capturable as well.  I think making them invincible would separate them too much from the rest of the arena and that's a bad idea, IMO, even if it means your country will be excluded from the island some of the time.

That's all I'll add...this is getting way too complicated    I think I'll just go fly now!


SOB

[Hooligan]

"Furball Island" sounds great to me.  It should make the game more attractive for some players and I can't really see how it will hinder the guys who enjoy strat at all.  I expect the most noticeable effect will be an increase in arena attendance as the attention-deficit-disorder crowd (like myself) will tend to log off less.  A more populous arena is better for everyone, regardless of their preferred flying style.

Hooligan