'Idiot Cards' for the US military...

[Kanth]

It's sometimes very hard to keep a straight face with some of the wierdo stuff they yell at you.

Originally posted by Hangtime
"YOU WILL NOT CULTIVATE ON YOUR FACE WHAT GROWS WILD ON YOUR ASS!"

[Dowding]

I don't think you read the whole story, AKDejaVu. The vets had the cards too - it was they who showed them to the correspondant. They, like the new arrivals, had been given them before or after (this was never divulged) they arrived in Bagram.

Either way, the Vets had their own cards - they weren't surprised, the journo was.

[easymo]

I ran into a reporter in a bar back in the 80's.  He had been in the RVN.  I asked him why they lied about us all the time.  He said that they where told to write two kinds of storys.  The Lonely Boy Away From Home story.  Or storys with an anti war slant.  Otherwise they would not run the piece.

 So in the end, we all had our idiot cards. Did'nt  we?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by easymo
The U.S. military is there to defend democracy.  Not to practice it. They have their own laws (Uniform Code of Military Justice).  What they are often ask to do, goes way beyond what any Civilian is ask to do. They are, and have always been, one of the most disciplined armed forces in the would. Their discipline has been commented on by former enemies, repeatedly.  Men who wish to remain free are willing to trade their lives, for that freedom.  That they are willing to trade their freedom, for a short time in the military, should come as no suprise

First of all - it's not "protecting" democracy, it's "enforcing" it.

You have to understand that "democracy" isn't an absolute value. As for me - I don't need any stinking democracy that serves as a curtain for the crap we have now.

About discipline commented by your enemy - it's really funny. I have read reports from Vietnam war. Who are you trying to fool? Song Mi is the most well-known example of your famous "discipline".

Anyway - war is war, and who am I to blame people who live under fire?...

I am surprised that you didn't understand my point. In 1979-89 Soviet soldiers had to answer in a politcaly-correct way (i mean Politicaly correct, corresponding with Party line), because they didn't understand what they fought for, unlike 1945 when they literally could speak from their hearts. The problem is that your soldiers see what really goes on, not the censored TV reports like what we had in 79-89, and they have to be politicaly censored, that, without effective political institutions in the Army, means this "idiot cards" as if your soldiers are imbecilic illiterate villagers, that I'm sure they aren't.

Current attitude to journalists in Russian army in combat (Chechnya and Tajikistan) is extremely bad. People who served in combat in post-Soviet time say that they have to take serious measures so that soldiers don't simply shoot any person with a camera.

The question of "trading your freedom" for military service is a nonsence for me. I didn't serve, I am the first male in my family in maybe 80-90 years who isn't an officer (i had only 2 years of military education when I was in college, unfinished, I was supposed to be a SAM officer, reserve), and I bet that personal "freedom" was not a question for both my Grandfathers, who went to military colleges in 1915 and 1938. Here people volunteer for the Army not because of some benefits.

[SC-Sp00k]

This giving up your freedom line that some of your are stating when refering to military service.  Im not sure I agree with that.


True there are elements of Military life where you obey and your actions will be those against your personal will and are done on the whim of another, but this is also true in civilian life, is it not?

Personally, I loved the Army.  I joined up at the same time as a good mate of mine from school. Where I loved it, he hated it. Within 12 months of completing Basic training, he went AWOL 3 times. I on the other hand, being young, perhaps naive, but excited at the prospect of a career doing this "Army" thing was convinced at the time, I would be a lifer.  (Didnt work out that way)

However when I left the Army, I was happy with the Army. I did not serve in a time of war. Perhaps thats the difference, but I did not feel my life was one of servitude or deciscions were removed from me altogether.  I made decisions every day, large and small.

I left the Army like most and thought Civvie street would love to have me.  Fully trained, disciplined ex-soldier, with pride in himself and a head on his shoulders should be a wanted commodity.

Soon after leaving the Army and scratching around for work in Private enterprise, I realised how damn good I had it in Military life.  People around me, getting the sack for the stupidest of reasons. Staff being yelled at by little Hitlers looking for promotion or the boss'es favour and the poor SOB's around me, that didnt have the common sense to put these Bas****'s in their place the first time around.

The Army is a good life.  War may bite fat ones, but the military looks after its people for the most part in Peace time.
Don't enter the Army if your not prepared that you train and will be employed in War should the need arise. But dont dismiss the Army in peace time because of it. The Army will teach you things about yourself that few other occupations can.

A Soldier is not a mindless drone.  In the modern Army, they are required to question, think and problem solve like never before.
The follow the rules because they believe in a purpose, because an Army to function properly, must have laws and rules. Like all rules, not all make sense. But they follow because they believe.

How many in civilian life believe in their job and would put themselves in harms way because of it?

Im willing to bet the percentage is a damn sight smaller.

Slam the media if you will. Slam the Army if you want to. Lay off the soldier who's sticking it out, doing his/her job.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


Maybe it was a bit much... Let me restate.

Military are not allowed to express an opinion, generally. Unless you're someone with lots of stars on your shoulders.

Well, that is better:)

However in my line of business in the intell community, my opinion is asked frequently. I assume,  you mean our opinion to the media?

[Samm]

The american press is free yes, but it's also a competitive profit oriented industry .

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by -ammo-


Well, that is better:)

However in my line of business in the intell community, my opinion is asked frequently. I assume,  you mean our opinion to the media?

Your opinion on mission maybe, but surely not your opinion on policy eh? At least they never asked us what we felt about policy! lol.

-Sikboy

[gofaster]

I can neither confirm nor deny that -ammo- and -Sikboy shared a cubicle in Langley, Virginia.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
This giving up your freedom line that some of your are stating when refering to military service.  Im not sure I agree with that.

Freedom is somewhat abstract and measured differently by folks. To some being able to live where you want, with who you want,  and do the type of work you want is freedom. Some feel that the military deprives them of this freedom and may or may not be willing to make that sacrifice.

I feel that the military does take away some of the freedom that civilians enjoy. However, the sense of service and camaraderie always made it worth while for me. MSgt, USAF Ret.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Sikboy


Your opinion on mission maybe, but surely not your opinion on policy eh? At least they never asked us what we felt about policy! lol.

-Sikboy

Thats because you were a squid:)

LOL, you are right of course. But in the AF world, dealing with mission requirements, my opinion is a part of the puzzle.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by -ammo-


Thats because you were a squid:)

LOL, you are right of course. But in the AF world, dealing with mission requirements, my opinion is a part of the puzzle.

Lol, I spent most of my time in the AF world. Sort of a refugee. But I did pick up a sweet air force honey of a wife, so it all paid off in the end

-Sikboy

[Airhead]

Originally posted by easymo
Sorry elfensqurriel.  I dont think you have been anywhere near a barrecks.  I served from Aug of '66 to Aug of "69.  Except for basic, I had a mustache the whole time. Also, having shiny objects, about your person, is a real bad idea in combat.  This includes boots.

You had a mustache? One where it wasn't allowed to extend past the corners of your mouth nor touch the upper lip? Yeah, that's regulation. That's a "molester" mustache. How many people in your unit had walrus style, fu manchu or handlebar mostaches?

You can have sideburns, too- provided they aren't any further than halfway down your ear, aren't long enough to touch your ear if combed towards it and don't "flare" at the bottom.

Hair had to be graduated in back and sides instead of "blocked" and couldn't hang down to the eyebrows if combed forward.

Nothing shiny? Sure, if you're in country. Were you in country all three years? Amazing- how did you get a waiver against the prohibition against three consecutive tours? I spent almost as much time spit polishing my boots, shining my brass and yes, even ironing my creases, than I did standing in line at every Stateside duty station I ever had. It's unbelievable you were spared the basic "spit and polish" requirements I and everyone I know had to endure. Why am I reminded of you as Radar O'Reilly in Rosie's getting teased over ordering a Grape Neihi and responding "We don't have shoe polish in combat fella."

I've read your description of yourself as a "biker." Tell me about your Harley Davidson. It's amazing to see 55 year old Viet Vet bikers today. Unbelievable.

I've read your description of your combat experiences and your statement that "killing gooks wasn't personal, it was just business." No remorse, no emotion, you just grimly mowing down "gooks" with your M-16 on Full Auto as you walk through rice paddys? Truly, and totally, unbelievable.

And YOU can read a post that says "Yeah, I was kinda a toejam bird and didn't always act appropiately" written by someone that YOU have always CLAIMED is a toejambird because he doesn't act appropiately and come to the conclusion that he's LYING? Un-FUGGIN-believable.

What do I know about YOU, Easymo? You're a 55 year old outlaw biker who killed people for a business and shrugs it off like a tough guy who never had time to be bothered with military trivialities like inspections and grooming regulations? You must have been part of that Hells Angels Brigade who enlisted and drove their Harley Davidsons up and down the Ho Chi Minh trail, long hair, beard and wearing Angels colors on their denim-covered armor, M-60s mounted on their handlebars blazing away, mowing down the "gooks."

You are unbelievable.

[lukster]

just testing this acct

[easymo]

Well where to begin.

 I was on Okinawa first.  Had a mustache, and had my head shaved bald to boot.  They where going to give me an article 15 for destroying government property. But my NCOIC (a black man) had his head shaved, so they backed down.  Didn't do any shoe shining, we had houseboys who did that.

 Did one tour in Vietnam. Had a mustache there. Had houseboys there as well. They brushed shined our boots, to water proof them. When they where shined at all.  Actually or houseboy was a pretty girl. She was always sweeping with this strange little broom that she had to bend over to use. As far as mowing down gooks. I shot at muzzel flash's. I don't know if I was the one that hit any of them, or not. The point I was making, in that post, was that the movies are full of BS. There is no emotional investment made in the enemy. You just shot back.

Ft. Bragg next. Still had a mustache. I was a Spect 5 by then. I was put in charge of a machine room at the induction center. I ran the night shift. No senior NCO's. No officers.  I pretty much did as I damn well pleased.  I was the Grand Poo Baa in my little comer of the world.

  I wont be 55 for a couple more weeks (Oct, 27). My Harley is a 1983 Shovel Head.  I built it from a basket case.  I still have it.  And If you had been around here for awile.  You would have seen the pic I posted of it.

  And Elfensquirrel is still full of toejam.