Author Topic: Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?  (Read 622 times)

Offline Red Tail 444

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Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2002, 12:18:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BenDover

Thats different, if you get drafted its not your mission to dive your plane into the enemy


Being forced to serve against your will isin't though.

Offline Fancy

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Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2002, 04:05:17 PM »
Alrighty then.  I started this thread so I'd better report in and maybe explain myself a bit more.  First, as a student of history AND as a student of literature (and even philosophy), I am of the personal belief that history can most of the time tell a better story than any writer can.  I believe that the story of Japanese kamikaze pilots is one of the most tragic and epic turns in the Pacific Theatre for both sides.  One of the most indelible images burned into my memory (and I'm sure the memories of many others) is the image of the kamikaze pilot wobbling through a storm of tracers only to fall a few hundred feet short of the carrier. I know that many kamikaze pilots were just kids and in no way really wanted to do it.  But that adds to the weight of the story.  Sheepishly turning your head away from a tragic point in the past can only cripple you.

Second, it is historically correct to portray kamikazes AS A WEAPON.  Their effect was both tangible and psychological.  (Have you ever watched an interview with those Americans that were exposed to kamikaze pilots?  The dread and sadness is echoed in each of their voices.)  Their impact helped shaped the later days of the war and their absence is noticable.  Like most have already stated--people commonly kamikaze anyway.

Third, sure this is a game.  But it is one that I think attempts to immerse us in that world of WWII aviation combat.  Yes, this immersion is a not in any way real, but it is immersion nonetheless and for me realistic qualities enhance immersion.  I can draw the line easily, and I can't really understand why it's that hard for others to do.

Finally, on the point of Luftwaffe pilots:  duh.  This is a silly tack if I ever heard one.  The number of Germans that knew exactly what was happening to the Jews under the Nazi regime was in the minority.  This is especially true in the first half of the war when the Nazis did to most of the Jews what they claimed they were doing:  exiling them.  This is also very true within the Nazi bureacracy as well.  Hannah Arendt insists, in her Eichmann in Jerusalem that one of the biggest tools of Nazi administrative obfuscation was a twisted web of bureacracy.  This effectively removed both the awareness and the culpability from many Nazi bureacrats even those working closely with "Jewish matters."  To me, the swastika has little power as a symbol and I think the modern day vilification of this symbol is myopic to say the least.  The acts define the evil, not the coat it wears.  There is NO SINGLE CASE in which a Luftwaffe pilot was forced to express wishes of genocide on any other group of people before he flew.  Period.  The implications towards this are absurd.

Offline XNachoX

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Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2002, 09:38:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fancy


Second, it is historically correct to portray kamikazes AS A WEAPON.  Their effect was both tangible and psychological.  (Have you ever watched an interview with those Americans that were exposed to kamikaze pilots?  The dread and sadness is echoed in each of their voices.)  Their impact helped shaped the later days of the war and their absence is noticable.  Like most have already stated--people commonly kamikaze anyway.


It may be historcally correct, but when in Aces High are you going to have someone who's physically shaking and emotionally traumatized from seeing a faceless online player hurl himself into the onslaught of CV ack fire.  We already have several kamakazi airplanes in this game which are already available and do more damage to their targets than a zeke strapped with a 500kg bomb.

I have to respectfully disagree with the statement that it shaped the war because at the time they were employed it was already a last ditch effort to try and stop the U.S.

Offline Fancy

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Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2002, 10:51:20 PM »
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Originally posted by XNachoX


It may be historcally correct, but when in Aces High are you going to have someone who's physically shaking and emotionally traumatized from seeing a faceless online player hurl himself into the onslaught of CV ack fire.  We already have several kamakazi airplanes in this game which are already available and do more damage to their targets than a zeke strapped with a 500kg bomb.

I have to respectfully disagree with the statement that it shaped the war because at the time they were employed it was already a last ditch effort to try and stop the U.S.


Nacho, I'd like to return your respect.  I'll just say that I find it refreshing for someone on an internet BB to show such civility and the ability to discern between an argument in the classical sense and a poo flinging contest.  Now on to the meat.

I guess "shape" is a relative term.  I know it was a last-ditch effort but it had a great impact.  Maybe not drastically on the momentum of the war, but on the everyday lives and actions of the men serving both sides.  And kamikaze's did manage to cripple and sink a scant few US ships.  I have found, in my unfruitful research as to how much explosives kamikaze's carried, that a 40mm deck gun was introduced solely for the purpose of tearing apart kamikazes before they could reach a ship.

And as for the fact that we have several kamikaze "stand ins", why not just have the real thing by your own logic.  Regardless of whether or not it would instill fear in AH players, the A6 tag would get the attention of ship gunners first, I'm sure.  I'll keep researching though to try and find out what sort of load they carried.  I read one source that claimed it was, as you've posted, 500kgs, but that same sources insisted it was 100% explosive weight giving it a much bigger explosive capability.  But that source seemed spurious.

Offline akak

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Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2002, 12:54:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa


 FPS games with blood and human bodies, but nothing that goes as far as to depict guts, how the human body is mutilated, torn, drilled and etc..(remember why games like DOOM series was viewed with such concern).


You haven't played Day of Defeat or any of the Soldier of Fortune games.  Just last night as I was playing DoD, I was amazed by the detail of the flying body parts after I tossed a grenade at a German machine gun position.  It rained body parts for a few seconds, with the walls behind the machine gun covered in blood.  Very good gore detail indeed.


Ack-Ack

Offline Red Tail 444

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Explosive loads for Zeros and Zekes?
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2002, 01:35:02 AM »
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Originally posted by akak

It rained body parts for a few seconds, with the walls behind the machine gun covered in blood.  Very good gore detail indeed.
Ack-Ack


Great, and just in time for X-mas....
Peace on Earth, y'all  
:(