Author Topic: Washington Sniper Has A Friend In Nra (Read 2563 times)

straffo · « **Reply #90 on:** October 14, 2002, 10:38:35 AM »

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Oh...and PLEASE do not cite Europe as an example of an area with sensible gun laws to control violence. Most west-European nations had strict gun-laws imposed upon them during the late 1930's and early 1940's. The result was tens of millions of murdered civilians, whose governments turned over lists of gun-owners to the Nazis. Any citizen in the occupied countries who did not turn in their firearms were arrested and shot. The Jews were rounded up and sent to concentration camps only AFTER they were disarmed. The Nazis hid their true purpose with lies and deceit. These victims didn't know the danger they were in until too late.

You really believe that ?

Don't you live in lalaland ?

Kieran · « **Reply #91 on:** October 14, 2002, 11:11:12 AM »

Here's the prob, MT...

Can anyone give me a reason why someone needs to possess a 20mm cannon? It would make squirrel hunting easier in some ways, but there wouldn't be much left to eat afterward. OTOH, if someone wants to keep a handgun in the house for protection, it would seem perfectly reasonable. In a black-and-white world that 20mm would have to be allowed if the handguns are allowed- and that is nuts.

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #92 on:** October 14, 2002, 11:23:10 AM »

Straffo,

Are you saying it DIDN'T happen? Or don't they teach 20th Centry European History in the Netherlands? The governments of many west European countries knuckled under to the Nazis and helped round up their own Jewish citizens. These same governments turned in lists of their gun owners to the Nazis.

Do you seriously believe that it didn't happen? Almost the only country that didn't actively help the Germans round up Jews was Denmark, led by it's heroic King Christian X.

Do you deny that millions were murdered? Do you deny that the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto, with a measly handful of weapons, embarassed the German military machine? Do you deny that a much larger armed uprising by the Jewish citizens of Europe might have made Hitler's Holocause policy unworkable?

Read the history of your continent. Your body count is a lot higher than ours.

Regards, Shuckins

midnight Target · « **Reply #93 on:** October 14, 2002, 11:44:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
Here's the prob, MT...

Can anyone give me a reason why someone needs to possess a 20mm cannon? It would make squirrel hunting easier in some ways, but there wouldn't be much left to eat afterward. OTOH, if someone wants to keep a handgun in the house for protection, it would seem perfectly reasonable. In a black-and-white world that 20mm would have to be allowed if the handguns are allowed- and that is nuts.

Funny how you and I seem to end up arguing the same point from different directions. Maybe I was unclear, my fault.

What I was trying to point out was - Why argue against registration of handguns, or any other controls placed on the ownership of firearms, when you argue for the reduction of rights to assembly and privacy. You can't give up 'part of a right', and you can't (ok, its really hard to) get it back.

Unlike some of the Conservatives on this BBS, I feel that what really needs protecting is the American dream of individual freedom. I am not for banning handguns, nor does this 'gun fingerprinting' make a whole lot of sense. I think all of our rights are in danger of erosion at this critical time.

miko2d · « **Reply #94 on:** October 14, 2002, 11:50:22 AM »

Kieran: Can anyone give me a reason why someone needs to possess a 20mm cannon?

Prospective despots would more likely be discouraged or detered by 20mm cannon than a waterpistol.

miko

Kieran · « **Reply #95 on:** October 14, 2002, 12:38:23 PM »

But you are giving up part of a right if you concede there needs to be laws controlling the manufacture and distribution of certain types of weapons. I am not against handguns or rifles for sport, but I don't see any need or desirability for cannons and assault weapons being freely available to the public.

miko2d · « **Reply #96 on:** October 14, 2002, 01:01:07 PM »

You are correct that authority of lawfull government consists of rights voluntarily conceded by people.

There apparently was never a case when people conceded their rights to bear arms or accepted limitation of those rights in favor of the federal government.
That is the whole point that people decide which rights to concede after a deliberate process of constitutional amendment, not when someone "sees no need or desirability...".
I mean, you see no need of desirability for some people to have certain types of arms, I see no need for some people to procreate.
I could even make a case that if you allow to restore sterilisation laws under which tens of thousands of people with low-IQ were sterilised in US in 1920s-30s, we will have sharp drop in gun violence and other crime and have no need to ban weapons.

As for types of weapons, it is very clear from the wording of a Constitution and writings of the Founding Fathers that the right to bear arms referred to military weapons (assault-type in modern double-speak), not just sport or hunting pieces.

After all, the second amendment refers to "militia", not "hunting clubs". They explicitly ment weapons that would be equal to ones of government troops - if a tyrant were to attempt a power grab using military.

miko

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #97 on:** October 14, 2002, 01:08:43 PM »

Did Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) or the Hillside Strangler have NRA friends?

Serial Murder is among the most difficult crimes to investigate, because of lack of motive: the tools the killer uses do not matter, the twisted thoughts of the murderer matters.

edit> by the way did they ever catch the Tylenol poisoner? Killed several... How's that Anthrax investigation going? Isn't Anthrax registered?

Kieran · « **Reply #98 on:** October 14, 2002, 01:17:27 PM »

Yes, they caught the Tylenol killer years ago. Guy trying to kill his wife, or something to that effect.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #99 on:** October 14, 2002, 01:22:34 PM »

Seems the underlying premise is that being a gun owner makes you more likely to commit murder, therefor you should be watched.

Let's be fair about it. Everyone should be fingerprinted, have DNA samples taken and be psychologically profiled so that its easier for the police to solve crimes.

AKDejaVu

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #100 on:** October 14, 2002, 01:23:34 PM »

I think that there was a copycat that was found, but I as I remember, it didn't explain them all.

Anyway, point is that a sicko can kill in too many ways to prohibit by legislation.

straffo · « **Reply #101 on:** October 14, 2002, 02:09:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by H. Godwineson
Straffo,

Are you saying it DIDN'T happen? Or don't they teach 20th Centry European History in the Netherlands? The governments of many west European countries knuckled under to the Nazis and helped round up their own Jewish citizens. These same governments turned in lists of their gun owners to the Nazis.

Do you seriously believe that it didn't happen? Almost the only country that didn't actively help the Germans round up Jews was Denmark, led by it's heroic King Christian X.

Do you deny that millions were murdered? Do you deny that the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto, with a measly handful of weapons, embarassed the German military machine? Do you deny that a much larger armed uprising by the Jewish citizens of Europe might have made Hitler's Holocause policy unworkable?

Read the history of your continent. Your body count is a lot higher than ours.

Regards, Shuckins

obviously you compleltly missed my point :

I just wanted to point that even if the Jew were having access to weapon during WWII it won't have preserved them from the organized mass murder which did happen.
Even organized they won't have survived 1 minute in front of an army.

And your interpretation of what I may think about the shoa or the nazism is DISGUSTING and I'll give you the benefice of doubt otherwise I won't refrain my anger.

I'm OVERLLY sensitive on this subject and the amount of hate I can have versus nazism or other form of dictature (communism included) as NO limit.

Just a little hint to help you I'm part jew from a dutch polish decent ... so thinking I may support any form negationism is for me hightly offensive.

midnight Target · « **Reply #102 on:** October 14, 2002, 02:16:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Kieran
But you are giving up part of a right if you concede there needs to be laws controlling the manufacture and distribution of certain types of weapons. I am not against handguns or rifles for sport, but I don't see any need or desirability for cannons and assault weapons being freely available to the public.

Interesting point. My take on that would be that it is similar to the limits we have on our freedom of speech.

Can't yell theater in a crowded firehouse...

Of course all this would be based on the assumption that we have the individual right to bear arms. (jiggle jiggle)

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #103 on:** October 14, 2002, 03:07:40 PM »

Straffo,

Read my new post entitled "Registration: The Nazi Paradigm."

Regards, Shuckins

Mighty1 · « **Reply #104 on:** October 14, 2002, 03:12:23 PM »

Kieren the Tylenol killer was a woman who killed the others to cover up her killing her husband. She in fact had killed her previous husband but had gotten away with it till she was caught killing her second husband.