Author Topic: Washington Sniper Has A Friend In Nra  (Read 2213 times)

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2002, 08:12:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher


I do belive this is the same crowd that is jumping all over the Atorney General and others for violating their rights :)


And the riposte of the day goes to... ... Krusher.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2002, 08:44:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about."



"those with something to hide are the first to scream about such measures"


Can you match the above quotes to the AH conservative who posted them?


yeah, it was me .. so?

As stated earlier, no problem with the gun "fingerprint" if it worked, but as stated throughtout the thread, it'd be just a another waste of tax dollars.

As Cobra suggested, I say chip everyone & let Big Brother and the GPS satellites sort em out :)

The problem ain't the guns, it's the ppl. Just as the BigMac ain't the fat problem, it's the fatties piehole, just as it ain't the cigs but the smoker, etc, etc, etc .. see the connection here ... it be da ppl not the object
:rolleyes:
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Offline Gman

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« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2002, 09:25:44 AM »
Quote
Every rational person acknowledges that when you are in the legal posession of firearms the treshold for using them is much lower, otherwise you'll have to go out on the black-market and purchase one, a relatively difficult and costly task for the average citizen in countries with proper gun laws



Never been to Canada I take it.


Or England.


We here have a boatload of gunlaws, ones that would make even moderates in the USA quake.  The UK has an outright virtual firearm ban, but for small bore and specific side by side shotguns, with incredible hoops to jump through to own them.

Give me ten minutes here in Canada, I could call a person who could call another person, and you could have ANY type of gun you wanted.  This is within the "otherwise law abiding" firearm cummunity here, where people are obeying every law except the firearms act.  MG42 belt fed machine guns, full auto whatevers, surpressors - they are all over the place here in the Canadian shooting scene, let alone what all the drug runners and other mafia types bring in here.

I do business with Saber arms in the UK.  Since the gun ban, they told me that gun crime is up 400%, and that getting any modern handgun/subgun from the street is so exceedingly simple that virtually every criminal who wants to be armed IS.

So much for your theory.  We can all agree to disagree in regards to the "rights" surrounding firearms ownership and use, but please don't make sweeping statements that are 100% not true, or based on facts and statistics.

BTW, in terms of cost, the street cost for new handguns in Canada is about 10% less than what full retail is in the USA, and pretty much on par with legitimate counter prices here in Canada, mainly because the amount of handguns being smuggled or stolen within the country is in large bulk shipments.  If you wanted a Glock 9mm, you could have one for about 900$ Canadian or 600$ USD, off the street, in any major city in the country.  I don't have any UK stats, but I'd imagine it isn't a whole lot different.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2002, 09:30:23 AM by Gman »

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2002, 10:51:31 AM »
Ok so... they find out that the gun and it's rifling was regestered to an owner who reported it stolen 6 years ago.    Or... they finally catch the guy and find out the gun has been rebarelled.

Anti gun wussies making up gun laws.... gotta laugh.  none of em know the first thing about guns.   I could make a gun in my garage.. lots easier than swapping engines in cars.  I can make a silenced weapon if I care to.

the neatherlands... LOL!!! I love it when some white as a sheet netherlander get's on here and talks about what we ought to do in our country.   Every single person in his country looks just like him and was raised just like him and works under the same government blanket..  he wouldn't last 10 minutes in a couple of places I could drop him off in over here.   Not a good thing but... a fact of life.  

yeah... guns can kill people.   they are a good tool for that (although not as good as fertilizer or even semi trucks)   but... we are not the netherland for better or worse.   I like it here.   So do millions upon millions of other folk.   With that much diversity you get some risk.   I am willing to take/live the risk but I need the tools to defend myself and others.    With this much divirsity you get a high risk of an oppressive government spawning... i want to be armed when they ask me to step into the oven.  

more tho.... I want the govenment to know I (and millions of my countrymen) are armed so that they don't even think about asking anyone to step into the oven.  

one thing all the anti gun nuts have in common is that their knowledge of firearms is laughable.... if they got into any other arguement with such a puny knowledge of the subject they would be ashamed...

but here's the catch....  when they actually learn, do the research.... they are no longer anti gun...  at least the honest ones who aren't simply phobic... ask John Lott.
lazs

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2002, 11:20:30 AM »
Damn lazs.  You and I are on  the same brilliant page.

Press on!
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Offline Sox62

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« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2002, 11:23:52 AM »
Fingerprinting is crap.

Run a stainless steel brushcleaner through the barrel a few times,then spend an entire minute changing the firing pin.

Guess what.The ballistics on the previous bullet are now worthless.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2002, 11:55:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
QUOTE]Originally posted by Staga

Why are you having problems to put up a register for guns ?



Staga,

Driving and owning a car is not a right in the Unites States.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Voting is a right. We register for that also.
sand

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2002, 12:02:56 PM »
and here's the kicker.... I work with the water you drink.   If I wanted to kill a toejamload of you I sure as hell wouldn't take my six shot 44 out to do it... or even my "assualt rifle"

you trust me with your water but not with a handgun?

oh... and I don't have anything to hide.   Not yet I don't.  Look at the poor aussies bastards tho if you want to know why I fear that I may have something to hide in the future.  the people who ask me if I have anything to hide are not just short sighted.... they are myopic.
lazs

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2002, 01:54:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler


yeah, it was me .. so?

As stated earlier, no problem with the gun "fingerprint" if it worked, but as stated throughtout the thread, it'd be just a another waste of tax dollars.

As Cobra suggested, I say chip everyone & let Big Brother and the GPS satellites sort em out :)

The problem ain't the guns, it's the ppl. Just as the BigMac ain't the fat problem, it's the fatties piehole, just as it ain't the cigs but the smoker, etc, etc, etc .. see the connection here ... it be da ppl not the object
:rolleyes:


Only one of those was you Eagler, and I was hesitant to post your quote because you have not been hypocritical in your views.

My point was to show that the right wing may be all for giving up some rights for "security" but against giving up others. You can't have it both ways. Either you keep your rights or you give them up.

And BTW, I had a S&W .38 with a short barrel. Sold it when the kids were getting older because it was single action and I worry too much.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2002, 02:27:06 PM »
Just to set the record straight in case any had any doubts. I am the NRA as well and am offended by the lie that is the title of this thread. As a retired Police Officer I dare say I have faced many more hostile armed situations than the vast majority of those that post about how bad guns are. I have "been there, have the T-shirt" and still believe that there is a right to bear arms.
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Offline -tronski-

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« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2002, 02:44:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Look at the poor aussies bastards tho if you want to know why I fear that I may have something to hide in the future.  
lazs


huh?
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Offline Leslie

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« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2002, 02:47:17 PM »

Offline Fatty

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« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2002, 07:34:15 PM »
Christ Thud, I know Europe is an overpopulated mess, but you cannot be so ignorant as to think there is nothing more to the United States than sidewalks and parks.

Offline Staga

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« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2002, 08:48:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Just to set the record straight in case any had any doubts. I am the NRA as well and am offended by the lie that is the title of this thread. As a retired Police Officer I dare say I have faced many more hostile armed situations than the vast majority of those that post about how bad guns are. I have "been there, have the T-shirt" and still believe that there is a right to bear arms.


Here in Finland all guns are registered and buyer needs a licence to buy a gun and ammunition.
If you need more info I could ask from my friend, last time I heard he was having 37 different handguns from .22 to .45, few shotguns and rifles and licence to buy/store 2000 rounds with maximum caliber of 75mm (about 3 inches).
His friend has two 20mm Lahti AT-rifles, one is deactivated and another isn't.

Registration of guns doesn't mean that law-abiding citizen couldn't have as many guns as he would like.

Just FYI.

Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2002, 02:14:42 AM »
Been wondering when this one would show up again.. been hashed out a few times in the O'club.


Hey Toad!! Where are ya man?!?  Whatever happened with those programs you linked in the last debate over gun/anti-gun?

I'm pro-gun.  I'm also pro-gun education.  Some of the worst arguements of my life have with anti-gun idealists, and been more than once that an anti-gun nut has thrown a punch at me because I shot down every arguement he made using nothing but logic (and yes, I stayed calm while they got aggitated).

Gun fingerprinting and registration.  They're both worthless and I'm against both.  And here's why:  THE COST!
Many folks have already said how easy it is to alter the finger print a gun leaves on a projectile.  It's rediculously easy.  So you've got some buearacracy created to manage all these finger prints.  That's alotta fingerprints to keep up with.  Then ya add registration to what they have to keep up with.  What kind of animal is the DMV where you live?  Whatever agency was created to keep up with all this info would prolly make your DMV look like a sunday bridge club meeting.  And WE have to pay for that worthless mess, and yes it's worthless for all the reasons mentioned above.  
And registration... well.. what was one of the things old Adolf did when he came to power back in the '30s?  Wasn't it registration of firearms?  Then confiscation?  A person with a gun is a citizen, a person w/o a gun is a subject.

Let me give a prime example of why I'm against fingerprinting, and this is a true story.  A good number of years ago I was roommates with a real good friend of mine.  He'd been wanting to get a handgun for home defense and casual sport shooting for awhile, but life kept getting in his way every time he tried to save up some money.  So, to skip alot of details, I have a nice chunk of change dropped in my lap, and my friend went with me to the gun shop/range one day, and I bought a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm for him.  He paid me little by little every week on payday til it was paid for.  So we have a gun with my name on the yellow sheet, but it was never my gun.

Ok, a few months after he has finished paying me for the weapon it was stolen by a crack head we knew.  We got it back and the crackhead went to jail.  I got married and moved away.  A few months later my friend is robbed again, and you guessed it, they took the delta elite.  Police report is filed, etc etc etc, and he told me how the cops commented he got lucky last time it was stolen, but don't expect the same luck this time.  6 months later the gun turns up one state over.  It had been used to committ a murder, and the cops have the gun.

(begin hypothetical here)
The cops run the fingerprint and come up with my info on the yellowsheet, so I've got cops coming round looking at me as thier prime suspect until they find out where the gun is, do I still have it, who did I sell it to, etc etc.  Then my friend becomes the prime suspect until they talk to him and get the police report etc.

(begin worst case scenario)
Then ya get an overzealous Asst DA who desperately needs a win on a capital crime.  I'm halfway across the country, so even though the chain starts with me I'm safe from the nutcase prosecutor.  My friend gets hauled in because that's where the chain stops.  He was close enough to have committed the crime, and unless he's got an iron clad, airtight, God himself couldna dispute it alibi he's in a world of hurt.  Reported the gun stolen, killed the guy a few months later, tossed the gun, etc etc.  They've got the gun, they've got me saying I sold it to my friend, and my friend saying he bought it from me.  It's reported stolen and turns up a few months later being used to kill.

Allowing, of course, that the fingerprint hadna changed significantly.

And the same thing could be said about registration.  They've got the gun, so they run the registration.  Me, my friend, reported stolen, and they wonder if it was really stolen or just a report made to cover the crime it would committ.

-

And to say the sniper has a friend in the NRA is just ludicrous.  Whoever started trying to make that connection needs some more education.