Author Topic: Can we do somthing about this? :-\ (Read 1486 times)

Revvin · « **Reply #90 on:** October 16, 2002, 10:54:53 AM »

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You are inserting your words own into my statements. I never said "unfair" you did. Quit lying. You have asked for structure downtime to be longer in the main.

You keep going on how I want to limit players fun

and insinuate that I want things my own way. I point out not one of my suggestions is unfair or unrealistic to set the record straight. I'm not lying I'm just pointing out how full of toejam you are.

Point out why craters or attrition is unrealistic?

This all boils down to you wanting some arcade arena setup that means you can fly whatever you want and to hell with the rest of the players who look for something a little more realistic.

Rude · « **Reply #91 on:** October 16, 2002, 01:41:46 PM »

do any of you cats ever just login, fly and have any fun?

Shane · « **Reply #92 on:** October 16, 2002, 02:29:39 PM »

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Originally posted by Rude
do any of you cats ever just login, fly and have any fun?

is the pizza map gone yet?

muckmaw · « **Reply #93 on:** October 16, 2002, 03:04:22 PM »

God Shane, I was just thinking the same thing.

I'm not going to whine about the Pizza, but this map is a nightmare for a Heavy Pilot.

Trying to bomb VH's in 10,000 foot crevaces, taking off from runways that look like they were built inside Volcano craters.....

I know the AKs worked hard on it, but I sure do hate this map.

Lizard3 · « **Reply #94 on:** October 16, 2002, 03:17:44 PM »

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Originally posted by muckmaw

Trying to bomb VH's in 10,000 foot crevaces, taking off from runways that look like they were built inside Volcano craters.....

Humm, sound like jabo work to me. And who garunteed you could take off from any feild in any direction?

MWHUN · « **Reply #95 on:** October 16, 2002, 03:25:59 PM »

This thread was pretty good till it turned into a full fledged pissing match by some.

Anywho: I’ don’t mind the occasional compressed aircraft, or the brain fart that we ALL sometime suffer from as we go splat into a structure. However there are entire squads that seem to have adopted a pork and auger attitude. I encountered 1 particular dweeb squadron this week that I knew from Air Warrior where they were a bunch of all out pork and auger dweebs… However even the lame “no skill” can not be bad for so long and so consistently.

Thus I have to conclude that they are actually thinking that they are using a legit tactic to get noticed! Well I got news for squads like this-you do get noticed!!! As DWEEBS. I watched this squad launch 7 different auger attacks either in 51s or my beloved Typhoon. Their sole goal was to drop bombs somewhere near the field and take out and pork as much as possible—thankfully they have not “mastered” dive bombing so damage was minimal.

On the other hand I had LOTS –O- FUN following these guys around and getting proxy kills as they augured near me—then I picked off the stragglers. I don’t think suiciders can be stopped but they can be definitely laughed at and can provide hours of entertainment.

MwKAZ · « **Reply #96 on:** October 16, 2002, 04:27:21 PM »

To somehow control the thing that started this thread, I don't have any idea on how it can be curved or stopped. But on a parallel to it, what actual hindrance does bombing strat targets do? Bombing ack, ammo and fuel factories should at least have some "trickle" down affect on fighter usage in an area.

As far as I know, buffing airbases is about the only means of causing a country any hurt. There tends to be an unlimited supply of fuel, ammo, ack and fighter production. As it stands, the only real use for anyone wanting to fly a buff is to hit a base or HQ for radar. Now before I get slammed on the buff issue, it is a part of the game. And strat bombing on all these facilities should have some small affect on the way fighters are handled. Just like when airfeilds in the area are down on fuel supply, some make sure to try to reload than to get a fresh plane. That way they can still get a full load as long as they keep their plane intact.

IMO, factories zoned in a particular area should have likewise affect for bases in that area. Thus causing any pilot that want a full supply load capability to keep the plane flying and try to land.

Aircraft factories are not an issue on any map here, so it wouldn't stop the type of aircraft available, just the loadout. Also would make some pay more attention to country assets (which currently noone seems to watch). Just a thought, but I know the hardcore ftr jocks hate anything buff.

Ever notice how a country scrambles to protect the HQ or to resupply it fast. Losing an radar sucks, wouldn't the other areas have the same affect if people knew that they might lose 100% fuel, ack support or full ammo loadout.

muckmaw · « **Reply #97 on:** October 17, 2002, 08:39:05 AM »

Kaz-

In answer to your question, the Level Bomber Group of the Marine Air Wing has investigated and begun operations against Strategic targets.

Though it may sound complex, it's really quite simple. Each zone is resupplied by the city in that Zone plus the various factories. Bombing the factories will seriously delay the rebuild time of their corresponding products . I have notes on the numbers but I believe the rebuild time for a factory is 2 hours without outside resupply. Now, during those 2 hours, the corresponding facilites at the fields in the zone will not rebuild (Ack, Fuel, Barrack, etc.) To compound the situation, if the City in the ZOne is destroyed, the factory rebuild time increases, to what measure I cannot recall.

It is my understanding that HTC is planning on making the Zone Cities more vulnerable to carpet bombing, making the Strategic element more important to the overall map.

I can tell you from experience, taking bases is much easier with the zone city and factories destroyed.

You'll be seeing more and more of this from our Squadron.

Turbot · « **Reply #98 on:** October 17, 2002, 09:06:57 AM »

Strategic System Explained

Read it yourself, but in a nut shell...

City Supplies Factory - City has 3 hour downtime now (Big "C" on map)

Factory Supplies Airfield - Factory Downtime with City 100% dead 3 hours - (less time in proportion for how much city is dead)

Airfield Targets - Hangars 15 minutes, Town buildings 45 minutes. Everything else 2 Hours (If the corresponding factory is 100% dead - less dead time in proportion for how much that p factory is dead)

Example: If AAA factory is dead 100%, and kept 100% dead (and best way to assure this is to first 100% kill the "big C" City), all airfields getting supplies from there will have to wait 2 hours for their aaa guns to regenerate, or fly in several resupply goons. A desireable outcome yes?

So you see there is a big strat system, but a lot of people never read the directions or just don't care I guess

edit to add examples with impact to effect planes:

If Refinery is 100% dead, and kept 100% dead (again best way to keep dead is to first kill the "big C" city), alll airfields in that zone will have to wait 2 hours for destroyed fuel to regenerate at that field

If Ammo factory is 100% dead, all airfields in that zone will have to wait 2 hours for more bombs to regenerate after the ordnance is killed at that airfield.

MwKAZ · « **Reply #99 on:** October 17, 2002, 09:37:20 AM »

Thx for the info, as to reading up on it, never knew where its was located on strat objects. I have to admit, I haven't read the manual in 8 months or so.

But with the way you both have listed the results, it would seem to be a very effective hindrance to nmy. If another country takes over a base in the "zone", does it also affect it if the city and factories are still down? or does the new occupants own city/factories take over control since area cities/factories cannot chg hands?

SKurj · « **Reply #100 on:** October 17, 2002, 09:57:28 AM »

The strat rarely works in practice....

To have much of an impact you must:

First flatten city to 0%
then flatten factory to 0% (waste of time in a buff so use jabos)
then hit base...

A large squad might be able to achieve this within an hour with large coordinated strikes on the city and factory.
If there are 2 cities per side... guess what? ... ya gotta flatten both.

Soooo... while the factory and the city might be at 0% it doesn't affect a thing until the base is damaged.

It takes a huge effort to really take advantage of the strat targets... Its not something you can just login and 'do'. I'd imagine the average player logs in for maybe 1.5hrs at a time, so its hardly worth starting as you won't be able to reap the benefits...

Hmm benefits...? less targets to shoot at are hardly benefits ...

SKurj

P.S. woohooooooo!! 100...

Wotan · « **Reply #101 on:** October 17, 2002, 10:10:40 AM »

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Hmm benefits...? less targets to shoot at are hardly benefits

exactly

but in the strat zones it works. Yes it will effect the base you just captured. Thats why some folks get pissed when some pork everything on the field. That forces guys to spend time resuppling it.

Capture the large airfield and you own the strat zone. This means none of the nme owned fields in that zone get resupplied and the rebuild time for objects on that field go to 2 hours.

Intercepting trains and trucks also interrupt the supply cycle.

The strat is rather complex on one hand but with quickly resupply hqs for instance it takes a bit of co-ordination. Too much for most folks. And as Skurj says the only real benefit is having less guys to fight. Those not having fun because they cant fly and fight where they want will log. Flying more then 2 sectors to a fight is a good way to get folks to log.

Skurj made a good suggestion about moving fronts etc instead of direct field capture. Read my suggestion above. Right now theres no need to play a true strat game when you can just run 30 suicide jabos at a field over and over until the reset. By changing the reset conditions to strat and production you would see a shift from the rolling gangbang to the Strat. This may or may not mean more "co-ordination". That would depend on the conditions.

However you look at it making the main a place where its a hassel to get to a fight in the plane you want would be the fastest way to push it into decline.

SKurj · « **Reply #102 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:50:03 PM »

Heh yup Wotan brought up a point i forgot all about...

Porking the strat in a zone will more than likely hinder your team as much or more than the enemy. You pork strat, capture the zone controlling field and ruh oh... your stuff won't rebuild...

Benefits?...... what benefits?

SKurj

muckmaw · « **Reply #103 on:** October 17, 2002, 01:00:45 PM »

I don't think that's correct, Skurj, and if it is, it is illogical.

Imagine the strat is not porked, and we capture a field in the zone. Why would enemy Strat equiptment resupply our newly captured field anyway? Are these fields cut off altogether from resuppply, or do they get resupplied based on the Strat of the nearest friendly start zone?

So, in converse, why would damaged enemy strat have any impact on resupplying a field we capture?

Did that make any sense? I'm not sure.

Now I'm confused.

MwKAZ · « **Reply #104 on:** October 17, 2002, 01:55:02 PM »

I understand what ya'll are saying. But wotan, you do make one important point.... that if or when it becomes a hassle to fly fighters then it will decline. I'm not a straight advocate for fighter or buff (lol, I suck at both, but have fun trying) but there must some middle ground in overall play that where all aspects have somewhat of an affect of outcome. I don't know where that would be at, but as for most the threads that have been reading for a month or 2 is fighter impact and jabo suicide stoppage.

Not that in no way would I every say that fighters are not a important part, if THE important part of the game. But if strat and it's affects can't have an impact on the game in a moderate means, then the game will stay the way it is as a "hurry and take bases for reset". I have to admit that I would like things to slow down a bit when it comes to that way of playing. Most of my enjoyment comes from fronts shifting and using alternative strategies. Some of the best fights in my opinion have been the "back-and-forth" fights for same few sectors of territory. But sadly, those sometimes hours of fighting and strategy end when others are in the mode of fastest reset.

It's a great game, not really a sim. The idea of using fronts versus base captures as criterias seems intriguing, wouldn't have a clue how to set it up though. Still, would like to see where everything has it's piece of the pie in importance on territorial outcome. Which who knows, might make some give thoughts on preserving their plane or worst yet.....consider their country as a whole.

Just my imputs, didn't mean to drag it out..... But thx again for all the info

~~KAZ~~