Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High

[Kaz]

about the speed vs alt graph, is that using different fuel loadouts or different engines or well...what do the 3 different lines represent?

[Mitsu]

Pyro would say "A new Ki is coming..." in next news.
It is just excited news, isn't it!?

[Mitsu]

Kaz,

The leftmost curve shows an overload weight performance in that graph. Other curves show a normal weight performance at WEP and military power.

[Pongo]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Pongo I think its entirely unfair and illogical to directly compare the "prototype" status and AH viability of an aircraft from something like the gigantic standardized US, German, UK, Soviet etc air force structures and the very small, almost butique style practically handbuilt Italian airforce's fighter establishments.

Im saying the Re2005 or G55 should be in the game, there is simply nothing in the US or LW or RAF or VVS airforces that compares to their status. And the planes both saw useful combat in the  Italian airforce, the MB5 never did and only two were built so thats kinda reaching...

I trust you are mature and intelligent enough to see the obvious difference here and there is no need to be absolutely rigid and inflexible as such attitides are simply childish obstruction tactics.

Well sure..I am mature and well ballenced everyone knows that..I am talking about the dweeb that gets killed by the "pre production" italian AC and wants a Production P51H, Bearcat, P80, Vampire, Fw190D12,  xb40 to fight it with. Or better yet...
wants a Pre production fw190 as in a BOB scenario...
Just saying that its a can of worms.

[J_A_B]

"Im saying the Re2005 or G55 should be in the game, there is simply nothing in the US or LW or RAF or VVS airforces that compares to their status"


He-100.   A number of pre-production aircraft were built, which saw some use.  It was never built in quantity though.


Mitsu's chart is quite nice.  It repesents how the Ki-84 performed using US AV gas, which is better performance than the Japanese could get from it  


J_A_B

[GRUNHERZ]

Man Goebbles was good!

He's still dooping peaople with his He100 propaganda 62 years later. A few were built, yes, but they were never used, their service to the fatherland was limited to propaganda photograps in fake gerschwader makings.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Man Goebbles was good!

He's still dooping peaople with his He100 propaganda 62 years later. A few were built, yes, but they were never used, their service to the fatherland was limited to propaganda photograps in fake gerschwader makings.

I understand some were sold the the IJN.

They hated them, but given the IJN's bias' of the time that would make lots of sense.

The Japanese and Italians both placed much too high a value on classical manuverability and too low a value on speed and firepower.  The lack of durability in early Japanese aircraft is simply an extension of the desire for supreme manuverability and not a desired trait in and of itself.

Both the Japanese and Italians realized, too late, that speed and firepower were the ultimate requirements of a fighter, with manuverability being a nice bonus if you could get it.

[J_A_B]

BTW the propaganda effort labeled them as "He-113"'s and was indeed rather successful.    The He-100's were used (note: I didn't say combat) after that as local defence of the Heinkel factory, which wasn't being bombed at that time.

There are conflicting reports as to what eventually happened to the dozen or so He-100D-1's, perhaps they were scrapped, perhaps they eventually got involved in combat somewhere and got shot down, nobody seems to know.


J_A_B

[Mitsu]

bump

[Turbot]

Determining what planes are appropriate depends on your specific objective.   Whether this is a game attempting to simulate World War II, or a game based on World War II aircraft, is an arena or event specific question.  In this light everyone is right.

For example: I wouldn't mind, for the MA or a "what if" Event if a 4 engined German bomber were deployed.  But at the same time it would not have a place in a historical recreation of a certain battle.


Me 264

[C_R_Caldwell]

Originally posted by Pongo
Well sure..I am mature and well ballenced everyone knows that..I am talking about the dweeb that gets killed by the "pre production" italian AC and wants a Production P51H, Bearcat, P80, Vampire, Fw190D12,  xb40 to fight it with. Or better yet...
wants a Pre production fw190 as in a BOB scenario...
Just saying that its a can of worms.

Pongo, 1st off, the G.55 saw operational use in both pre-production and production versions, so your argument doesn't wash there. Again, I have to stress that there is a *major* difference between a prototype and pre-production a/c ; it's not a matter of semantics at all. An operational pre-production a/c is simply an operational a/c that has not been built to projected specs. In the case of the G.55 the only major difference being the pre-production a/c had different armamament to production versions.

I'll give you a good example of an operational pre-production a/c. The He 219 1st saw action in its He 219A-0 pre-production form. This model of He 219 was *not* a prototype. OTH, a very small number of Ta 154s were built to Ta 154A-0 status but they were never operational and so it would be very hard to argue for their inclusion. The Ta 152H-0 pre-production a/c (without GM1) saw operational service and so IMO could be included (some argue that our Ta 152H-1 is in fact a H-0).

Now if someone called for the high-alt C.205 Orione (Orion) to be introduced to the AH planeset, your argument makes sense. After all, it was only flown as a prototype and there was only 1 ever made.As far as the He 100 is concerned, it never saw action and was used simply as propaganda by the Nazis.

The Re.2005 OTH was only ever built in pre-production form, and a few dozen at most. However it *was* operational and reportedly also saw action over Berlin with the Luftwaffe. The decision as to whether to include the Sagittario is not as clear cut as with the Centauro since it was built in even smaller numbers without a production series being built. IMHO, the point is, did the pre-production series of a particular a/c see operational service ?

[Pongo]

glad you like the thing caldwell.
good luck ever getting it.

[oboe]

So anyway something over 3,500 Ki.84s were produced (as in PRODUCTION versions....

[C_R_Caldwell]

Originally posted by Pongo
glad you like the thing caldwell.
good luck ever getting it.

I think pigs will fly before we get an Re.2005. Perhaps they'll only need to glide before we can get a G.55.  I'm not expecting either to ever make the AH planeset. The G.55 certainly deserves to,  but fat chance for it to ever get there. Italian a/c just aren't "sexy" to most casual WW2 aviation buffs, a group which AH seems to be increasingly aiming for...

[C_R_Caldwell]

Originally posted by oboe
So anyway something over 3,500 Ki.84s were produced (as in PRODUCTION versions....

You are spot on there Oboe, but the number of a/c produced is meaningless when deciding whether to introduce it to AH. Otherwise, the P-40 would've been one of the 1st Allied fighters in the AH planeset, and we wouldn't be flying a 3x20mm cannon La7 or the F4U-1C etc etc.

Production numbers aside, I'd love to see the Hayate as the next AH fighter. I'd love to see the Ki-100 and J2M (J2M3 probably, though I'd prefer the J2M5) as well . The chances of getting the Ki-100 would seem rather good I'd have thought, though I'm unsure as to whether we will ever see the the Raiden in AH (at least any time soon). I hope I'm wrong! The variety of IJN and IJAAF fighters definitely needs to be increased IMHO.