Religious T-shirts

[mrfish]

Originally posted by Kieran
By all means, include the charts and music.  

i'm too lazy to attach anything,  but if you like, you can imagine a chart with 'my rightness' along the y-axis and time(t) along the x-axis with y being determined by t^2

and you can hum 'cain't touch this' by our pal reverend hammer for the audio

kidding dude- we'll just have to disagree i guess.

[hblair]

Hey fish, we're about to do a west coast door knockin, need your address again.

[texace]

Thing some people have problems with is the fact that the Bible was written by man for man to explain things that man did not understand. Man wanted to know how he came to being, the Bible answered. Man wanted to know how to act, Bible answered.

So essentially...Christianity is a man-made religion...just like all of them.

Hey...I've even got a little Darwin fish on my car...is that so bad?

If there's a Hell...I'm going to it...as all of us are. Christian souls may go to Heaven, but God will have to fight all the other Hells from all the other religions to keep the soul. Most religions say you go to "Hell" if you don't believe, right?

Expect to go to Heaven, end up in a Jewish Hell. Same token for all other religions...

[funkedup]

Thing some people have problems with is the fact that the Bible was written by man for man to explain things that man did not understand.

Well there may have been a human moving the pen on the paper, but a lot of us believe that the inspiration and truth came from God.  We don't have a problem with it.

So essentially...Christianity is a man-made religion...just like all of them.

Well religion, by definition, is man-made.  But the truth in the Bible comes from God.

Hey...I've even got a little Darwin fish on my car...is that so bad?

It's not so bad, if not very original.  If mocking others' beliefs makes you happy then enjoy.

If there's a Hell...I'm going to it...as all of us are.

Speak for yourself.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[Leslie]

Mr Fish has brought up some interesting points concerning the idea of hell being a place of everlasting torment for non-believers.

I did some research and here is what I found out about the subject, as far as what the Bible means when it refers to hell.  I will paraphrase, because the subject is too lenghty to post here.  This information comes from  Aid to Bible Understanding , containing historical, geographical, religous and social facts concerning Bible persons, peoples, places, plant and animal life activities, and so forth.

It seems there has been much confusion and misunderstanding caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell.  The simple transliteration  of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to clear up this confusion and misconception.

Sheol refers to a place of unconsciousness in mankind's common grave.  Those in Sheol neither praise nor mention God, yet it does not represent a condition of being separated from God.  The Scriptures render such a meaning untenable by showing that Sheol is "in front of" him, and that God is in effect "there."  (Prov. 15:11; Ps. 139:7, 8; Amos 9:1, 2)  For this reason Job, longing to be relieved of his suffering, prayed that he migh go to Sheol and later be remembered by God and called out from Sheol. - Job 14:12-15.

Hades literally means "the unseen place."  It refers to the  common grave  of all mankind, where the dead and buried ones are unseen.  It signifies the same as Sheol.  Since Hades refers to the common grave of all mankind, a place rather than a condition, Jesus entered within the "gates of Hades" when buried by Joseph of Arimathea.  The gates of Hades were opened for Jesus when He was resurrected.  The Bible Hades is not the imagined place that the ancient non-Christian Greeks described in their mythologies as a "dark, sunless region within the earth," for there was no resurrection from such mythological underworld.

Jesus Christ associated fire with Gehenna (Matt. 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:47, 48), as did the disciple James, the only Biblical writer besides Matthew, Mark and Luke to use the word.  Some commentators attempt to link such firey characteristics of Gehenna with the burnings of human sacrifices that were carried on prior to Josiah's reign, and, on this basis, hold that Gehenna was used by Jesus as a symbol of everlasting torment.  However, since God expressed repugnance for such practice, saying that it was "a thing that I had not commanded, and that had not come up into my heart," (Jer. 7:31; 32:35), it seems most unlikely that God's Son, in discussing divine judgement, would make such idolatrous practice the basis for the symbolic meaning of Gehenna.  Jesus used Gehenna as representative of utter destruction resulting from adverse judgement by God, with no resurrection to life as a soul being possible.  The symbolism of "the fire is not put out" (Mark 9:47, 48) is not one of torture but , rather, of complete destruction, and is evident from the fact that the Isaiah text dealt, not with persons who were alive, but with the "carcasses of the men that were transgressing" against God.

What I get from this is, we all go to hell when we die.  Hell is not a place of everlasting torment, but rather, the common grave of mankind.  Jesus was in hell for three days until He was resurrected by God (the Ascension.)  God resurrects the dead at some point in time.  Those who separate themselves from God remain dead (the second death), but not in a state of everlasting torment.  They don't experience pain or pleasure, or anything at all.  The resurrected souls are restored to life alongside God.

Many of the modern day misconceptions about hell, come from Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost .


Les

[mrfish]

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46)

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:15)

"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." (Luke 16:24)

"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:48)

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" (Revelation 14:10)

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and potatomongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matthew 25:41)

"Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever." (Jude 1:13)

"Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:12)

"Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." (Matthew 18:8,9)

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand." (Rev 21:1)

"Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: [this shall be] the portion of their cup." (Psalms 11:6)

"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?" (Isaiah 33:14)

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:12)

"Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:13)

"For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and potatomongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:15)

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30)

"And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:51)

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." (Luke 16:23)

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11)

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10

"And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:42)

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

 
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

 
"And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds." (Revelation 16:11)

[Kieran]

I agree with you Mr. Fish, there is most definitely a God of wrath.

[Eagler]

the divine is in you

each and every one of you, waiting for you to tire of "life" and go in search of it

its not in the bible or other books, it is in you

stop the noise of your mind and senses long enough and any of you can find it

until then, its all just words and more noise

[weazel]

its all just words and more noise

[texace]

I don't mock religions...I simply like the little fish. I laugh when I see it...if other can't they need to loosen up a bit.

The divine is in me? Well, possibly true...but I'm not going to take the time searching for it. I spent 16 years of my life praying to a "God"...and got nothing material or spiritual. If nothing else...I lost things for it. I believed that "God" could help me, but nothing came of it. I wasn't enlightened, nor was I "saved", so I stopped caring...and gave up...

If it's true people are saved when they believe, am I to believe that murderers and rapists will go to Heaven if they recite the Lord's prayer just before they die?

If that's so, I bet St. Peter has his pants around his ankles right now...

[funkedup]

I don't mock religions...I simply like the little fish. I laugh when I see it...if other can't they need to loosen up a bit.

The "little fish" (the Darwin thingy) is an obvious parody of a christian symbol.  To say you laugh at it in the same sentence where you say you don't mock religions, now THAT is funny.  

[Sandman]

I love chocolate ice cream.

I can't understand why anyone would be so stupid as to think that strawberry ice cream is better.

I hope that one day everyone realizes how much better chocolate ice cream is than strawberry or vanilla or anything else.

In fact, I think the world would be a better place if the only ice cream available was chocolate.

If you don't like chocolate ice cream, it's probably because you've never given chocolate ice cream a chance.

If you did, you would give up that nasty strawberry and vanilla.

[senna]

I bet your kids gona grow up to like choclate ice cream also. I wish they would make choclate cigarrets.

[Octavius]

Sand, what if I wanted neopolitan?





[chocolate cigs?  eek!]

[Kieran]

Now for a twist, Sand- which side of the religious debate does your analogy refer to? Both?