Religious T-shirts

[Airhead]

Originally posted by mrfish

i cheer christians in tee-shirts in one sense, because at least they are living it large  - i just can't get past the part that tells me their horse is a loser in the end and that faith would be better spent in the real world.

Real world? Gee Mr. Fish, my Church raises money to help support a homeless shelter and soup kitchen, we distribute meals to the elderly, Christmas toys to poor children, Hospice to the dying, counseling to people trying to overcome marital or other personal problems, scholarships for deserving students...we organized community blood drives after 9-11, set up 3,000 crosses to commemorate the event on 9-11-2002, and yada yada yada... all the while expecting nor wanting anything in return other than the knowledge we have helped somebody in the REAL world even if it's in a very small way.

Now before you start typing a rebuttal claiming all these things can be accomplished by non-Christian organizations, I agree entirely Christianity hasn't a monolopy on kindness and good works. I'm just pointing out some of the things my Church strives to accomplish- none of them because  we are weak, fearful, superstisious or any of the other unflattering terms you apply to Christians- we do it because it needs to be done and, yes, I also get a small bit of earthly pleasure out of helping truly needy people out.

According to you if I'm not living destitute in a cornfield I'm not a true believer, but if I decided to live up to your ideal of what a Christian should be like and move into a cornfield you would call me a superstisious fool. LOL I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, according to you. What do you want me to say? I'll quit my Church because we aren't accomplishing anything worthwile anyway, other than spreading lies? Please don't make me retell the Little Girl and the Starfish story.

I'm not the best of Christians, admittedly. But really, my Church accomplishes things that help people out in the REAL world because that is the world we are all currently living in. Why does taking part in my religion make me weak, fearful, cowardly or so many of the other names you have to refered to believers as? Or even more importantly, why are you so opposed to my pratice of my religion? Because you think I'm wrong? Please, there's "wrong" people we all ignore every day. Why does my religion cause you such consternation? I really don't get it.

[funkedup]

Texace I'm sorry to hear what those people did to you.  Unfortunately there is no mechanism to prevent amazinhunks from saying they are christians.

I would never hate or hurt somebody for not believing.
Pity maybe, hate never.
And there's no reason for hurt either.  If you die before you are saved then you will have quite enough hurt.  

The imagination comment was in regards to you imagining yourself in the shoes of someone who believes that you will face the most horrible possible fate if you aren't saved.  If you can envision yourself in that situation then maybe you can understand why somebody would wear a t-shirt like the one you pictured.

[Rude]

Originally posted by mrfish
your beliefs are an affront by themselves - can you be a good person without being a christian?

must not be the case if all non christians go to hell right? god doesn't send good people to hell does he so.... therefor you are automatically assigning a lower moral value to non-christians.

if that's not bashing i don't know what is.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8,9

Can you be a good person without being a christian? Sure...the difference is who defines good. In Gods eyes all have fallen short and need a saviour, Jesus Christ, who's shed blood at calvary covers our sins.

If you feel justified that mankind recognizes you as a good person, then the end of that will be what it will be.

Most everyone I know likes and respects me as a man, a professional and a father....does that justify me in Gods eyes?

No, it does not.

Many of you will laugh, but God loves us all...we are his creation, black, white, yellow....all of us. It is his desire that he have fellowship with all of us.

Unfortunately, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

It is my sincere hope that all of you might come to know the peace which only God can provide....to know your enemy and to understand that this is not about what I or another so called christian might think or say, but rather what decision you make regarding your life.

I am not your judge, for only God knows a mans heart.

There is but one truth....what different men believe to be that truth has no effect...it still remains the truth.

[lazs2]

mt... knew I probly shouldn't have said that about the prayer thing... I watched it on a PBS thing a while back and don't have any link to it.   Maybe someone else does?   I know it has been tried many times... I also seen a part where "believers" were bitten by poisous snakes and drank enough arsenic to kill a dozen men with no ill affects.

My point is...  I believe that kieran and the other christians will find their heaven through christ and only him... I believe other believers will find their heaven by their prescribed ways.  I don't think god handed out power of atorney to any one religion.

I think modern christians do a whole lot more good than they do harm and... while I am a little miffed that they would condem me to the fires of hell for no other offence than.... not caring about wheter or not christ existed or, id the son of god... I don't really get too angry about it.   I meet their attempts with like force... if they are conversational then I am conversational.... when the conversation reaches the inevitable.... "well because it is written"  then.... the conversation is over.  Ther is no point in discussing it any further...  
lazs

funked said in response to the terror squirrle attack in england that was only stopped by a grandfather with an illeagal air rifle... "Wow if they had a rabid racoon I bet they'd have to call in NATO to bring over a .22 or something."

[Rude]

Originally posted by mrfish
ah!

finally thanks funked for the straight answer-

so a non-believer can go to heaven then?

I am the way, the truth and the light; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

[fd ski]

MrFish summed it up nicely as far as i'm conserned.

Kieran, i was brought up in VERY religious family in the country that has more churches per person or per mile then any other place on the planet.

Main problem is that I never really believed. Never felt that "extrernal something" touch me in any sense.

Secondly, hypocricy of Holy Mother Church in Poland and better part of its followers litterally guaranteed that I will never even thing about going back into the fold.

99% of polish population declares themselves as Roman Catholic. At least 50% of it is actively practicing. Those are usually people in rural regions and the poor cities. Same people who spend their last cent on potatos and vodka. Who abuse their wives and children in such ways that would make SS-man proud. And sunday morning they put on their only decent outfit, and march right up to be cleansed of thier sins....

If there is one problem with any faith it is the idea of "instant forgiveness". Lay down and pray for two hours and all your sins are forgiven... again and again. You can be a total piece of toejam, but on sunday, under the sign of the cross all that will be gone and forgiven.....
( in this context it is hillarious that conservatist types are usually very religious.... tough on crime of any sort and absolvation for me ? )

In USA i've observed a westernised version of christianity.
I guess you could call it "liberized" version It's the "my god is different" approach. It's quite genious actually.
Wanna screw before the marriage ? That's ok - my personal God doesn't care.
Wanna do drugs or drink like mad ? Sure no problem. My God wouldn't mind.
Disrespect your parents ? That particular commendment was nullfied by my personal god.
Help poor ? diddly them. Let them get a job !!! ( Sounds familiar ? )

So my beloved belivers Pick up that Bible which you love to thumb so loudly. Read it and follow the word. Litterly. Don't roadkill, translate, abbriviate or read into it.
If interpretation is so importatant we could make "Mein Kamfp" into a positive piece. I've read the Bible. Live it the way your "god" disctaced. "Interpretation" excuse doesn't cut it.

[Kieran]

Just for the record, I don't condemn anyone. That isn't my job.

[Rude]

Heyas Ski....

Just a thought....you might want to stop looking at men and their religion...then and only then will you see the truth.

Heyas Keiren:)

[fd ski]

heyya Rude We had this conversation, didn't we ?
I remember 3 hours at the con

[mrfish]

Originally posted by Rude
I am the way, the truth and the light; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

an even straighter answer. and the one that causes the problems.

it's kinda like walking out into the world every day and saying "all these people are going to burn when they die but I'M not, I'M a christian and I'M going to heaven. let me hang my head in pity a-la jesus and pity all these poor, poor people...they are nice and good and don't hurt anybody but god is going to fry them forever because they don't believe and somehow i don't feel any cognitive dissonance over that because i am happy hehe yeeaaaah praise god!!!!"

if you don't see how that hurts rather than helps the world then what can i say? i'm not saying you consciously deride everyone but you should think about what your beliefs say implicitly to non-believers.

your good deeds? counseling? your answers don't take into account the persons needs, the church is no psychologist - all you do in each case is hit them with a soothing hypo full of reassuring scripture - i could do that with heroin.

people come to you when they are scared and hurting because they need answers whether those answers make sense or not. they are scared of death or scared of homelessness or scared of this and scared of that -  you say hey we were scared too but christ made it all better with his reassurances from beyond the grave - come aboard!

if you think we are going to be punished solely for non-belief then either you think we have done something deserving punishment or you believe that god punishes good people. i still haven't heard that refuted and doubt i ever will - saying you don't condemn people isn't enough, your beliefs speak where you don't. see it.

as for my interpretation of the bible, it's no better or worse than anyone elses - i imagine we'd have a different take on the metamorphisis, heart of darkness, moby dick and daisey miller too(i thought daisey was a flirty squeak that deserved to die by the way).

personally, i'd rather be in a cornfield than bloated behind the pulpit of a giant gilded cathedral, congratulating myself on how gracious my charity is and asking for another fat check from the congregation.

you don't have to agree - it's just my take on it.

[mrfish]

Originally posted by Rude
Heyas Ski....

Just a thought....you might want to stop looking at men and their religion...then and only then will you see the truth.

Heyas Keiren:)

just curious - do your eyes roll back in your head when you say all that wafty stuff? do you kinda close your eyes and nod out for a sec?

 

[Animal]

Originally posted by Kieran
Just for the record, I don't condemn anyone. That isn't my job.

No, that is God's job

[Kieran]

if you think we are going to be punished solely for non-belief then either you think we have done something deserving punishment or you believe that god punishes good people. i still haven't heard that refuted and doubt i ever will - saying you don't condemn people isn't enough, your beliefs speak where you don't. see it.

You are condemning the messengers. Speaking only for myself I can tell you that I don't condemn you, and my religion does not require I do so, either. My religion says I should live so that you see my religion in me, and I should treat you as if Jesus lives in you.

I'm sorry I can't do better than that, but I can't, I'd just be making stuff up. The only unforgiveable sin is rejecting Jesus so far as I know. That leaves the door open to a lot of people- as it should. Likewise if I interpret it another way it closes doors to atheists. Still, to me it is of no consequence, I still must treat you (royal you) the same. Until the day you die you have the chance to be saved, and I might play a part in that salvation.

The way you paint it, Christians walk around looking down their noses at everyone- a very big misconception of true Christians. True Christians do just the opposite.

Ski-

Sorry to hear that about the religious people you knew. I wish I could tell you that all Christians behave perfectly, but of course they don't and I can't. What can I say? Jesus said "Not all who call 'Jesus! Jesus!' will be saved." This is a warning to people who practice in name only.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Animal
No, that is God's job

not really

we condemn ourselves - through our thoughts & deeds

action-reaction whether its positive or negative

ying & yang - karma - many names - same end result

the boomerang of life - whatever you throw out there is gonna come back to you - sooner or later - so best make it a warm and fuzzy

oh yeah, don't think in terms of time - that's only a worry here

[mrfish]

Originally posted by Kieran
You are condemning the messengers.  

that's a convenient way to see it - displacing the blame to god himself taking the position "i'm just a soldier i dunno..."

your club believes you will receive eternal life, your club believes the rest of us are condemned.

it doesn't matter what you explicitly believe, implicitly you are assigning a value to non-believers.

what if i told you that god just visited me and he said christians were wrong after all and you were condemned and that i feel sorry for you and pity you because you won't see the light?

i don't want your pity or your sympathy because i don't need it - your group doesn't have anything to offer me except myth.