Author Topic: Engine Management  (Read 1287 times)

Offline Jinx

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Engine Management
« on: July 27, 1999, 06:17:00 AM »
I have said this before but I guess I can say it again, I would love to have the option of advanced engine management; mixture, pitch, cooling, switching blowers and so on. What I would like to see is a system that reward the correct use off advanced systems like engine-controls but punish me if I mess up.  

Make the automatic systems not quite perfect, let them play it safe, if you manually push things to the limit you can get a bit more performance out of it, but risk blowing it. If you don’t want to mess with it, just leave it on auto.

You could for example get much better mileage cruising, by leaning the mixture and lowering RPM at relatively high manifold pressure.

I know Pyro said there will be no advanced engine management, I just want to push for it anyway <G>

   -Jinx



Offline popeye

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Engine Management
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 1999, 06:27:00 PM »
Might be fun to add some of that stuff to bombers.  It would give the bomber guys something to do while climbing out.

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Offline Vicious

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Engine Management
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 1999, 06:50:00 PM »
I'm all for it.  I think it's time for a sim that's a revolution. . .not just evolution.  WB was really a big step for it's time.  Anything that will help AH stand out will be welcomed with open arms.  Just look at ProPilot, or MSFlightSimulator.  Those titles are flying off the shelf because they're emersive sims that require all the details of real civilian flight.  Write AH with that fidelity and I'll bet people will flock to you.

 

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Offline Kats

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Engine Management
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 1999, 07:08:00 PM »
I agree. I don't think people are afraid of detail, look at Falcon 4. I remember reading posts for 1 month people exchanging tips on just how to land the bloody thing hehehehe, nevermind the MFD's ! I think to date they have sold over 200,000 copies.

PS, now that argo's board is down I've been reading this one more often and it's almost the same (except no animals) it's basically another "I wish" board hehehehehe fun stuff.

6gun

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Engine Management
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 1999, 07:59:00 PM »
Seems to me that at the least motors should get too hot running wide open for long periods of time etc.

6gun

Offline Brazos

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Engine Management
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 1999, 08:19:00 PM »
Agreed,

The more in-depth the better. That ain't gonna happen this time, but there is a real desire for that kind of authintic sim. MSFS or Flight Unlimited with guns. Maybe someday.



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-jagr-

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Engine Management
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 1999, 08:44:00 PM »
I couldn't agree more with you all..  I'm an immersive nut and like it to be more "system management" than just yank and bank but we have to remember that for every pro, there is a con and the entry level player (the one that pays the bills for HTC will need a way to have that done for him..  And, once you do that, flying with the other settings might become a disadvantage for the rest who have the "reality" cranked up.

It would be a GREAT way to make the game stand apart from the "other" game..and a Historical arena where the settings required engine management with all the other details they have mentioned would be a dream come true.

Offline Kats

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Engine Management
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 1999, 09:39:00 PM »
cc jagr. The idea I liked was the the fellow who posted ez mode where that detail could be  handled automatically, perhaps a 5% speed reduction to provide an incentive to fly in ace mode  

Offline Wardog

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Engine Management
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 1999, 01:53:00 AM »
Katz..

I dont agree,i think easy mode should not be enabled in any of the main arenas.If there is to be an easy mode it should have a seperate arena all together.If the newbies need time to get used to the FM then they can go to an arena where all fly easy mode.

 

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Offline -ik-

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Engine Management
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 1999, 01:59:00 AM »
pyro said full engine controls are not planned for AH, but I want them. It seems everyone is for it, please listen to the players pyro!

Offline Kats

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Engine Management
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 1999, 03:13:00 AM »
That's a good idea wardog.

Offline Jinx

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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 1999, 04:41:00 AM »
I have to disagree, I think that the goal must be to naturally progress from newbee to master in the same arena to avoid creating a distinct easy mode crowd. Having everyone in one arena but giving the new guy the help he needs to get in the air and have fun must be the trick. The hard part is making the help optional but not an advantage for the advanced player, graduating to the next level should be more or less automatic. I think the WB AoA limiter in dweeb mode is a good example.


  -Jinx


Offline -ik-

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Engine Management
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 1999, 05:13:00 AM »
thinking about this more, it seems ludicrous to leave out engine controls from a "flight simulator." Even MSCS has dynamic engine controls, what a pity AH won't.

Offline Vermillion

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Engine Management
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 1999, 08:52:00 AM »
   
Quote
It seems everyone is for it, please listen to the players pyro!

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I believe that the "silent" majority far outweighs the 5 or 6 people that continuously ask for these "advanced engine management" features.

Guys, guys, guys.... Don't take this personally, but...

Take a step back. And try to look at this from the perspective of the "average" pilot in WWII flightsims. The guy who gets to fly maybe one night a week for 3-5 hours.Each and Every one of us have been flying online flightsims for many years and are looking at it from the perspective of thousands of hours of sim-experience. Try for just a few minutes to look back to when you started.

Right now the learning curve is already overwhelming in a game of the complexity of Warbirds (assuming AH will be of a similar nature or even more detailed). Not only do you have to learn the basics of flight, ACM, and SA. You have to learn advanced gunnery, trimming controls, and Plane vs. Plane tactics. And then spend hundreds to thousands of hours learning how to do these things "right" in just a single aircraft type.

Its a real b*tch to learn all these things, and not end up being depressed because your continuously being shot down, and end up quiting. Its my understanding that very few players make it thru the learning curve and stick with the game.

Now you want to make it that much harder? Sure you can make "auto-management" the easy mode with a penalty, and give peopel in "ace-mode" the advantage (like these people don't already have a huge advantage over the average players).

Would this make it fair? Nope, I don't think so. It would be just like "easy mode" in Warbirds. A dead end path that ends up hampering the player more that it ever helps them.

Sure Falcon 4.0 and other advanced single player sims have features like these. But in these games your typically flying against relatively "stupid" computer generated AI, not hard core steely eyed frothing at the mouth, millions of hours of sim-combat experienced human beings. Not even close to being the same thing. Remember how real life Combat pilots look at our community and comment on the fact that even the LEAST of our average pilots have hundreds of times the combat experience that real pilots had? Face it, the pilot quality in our sims are excellent.

And now you want to make it that much harder on new guys (that or add a penalty to them)? I'm sorry but I have to totally disagree.

Me? <shrugs> I have flown AW since AW4W, when it originally came on AOL and WB's since version 0.9X in the last couple of weeks of beta. So I figure I can learn it without too much difficulty, but would I enjoy it? No, I have enough to think about already when I'm flying.

Games like this can only thrive and grow on the strength of its new players. And if you drive most of them off with an extreme learning curve, well there goes the life blood of your game.

Just my opinon. I know you disagre   and I respect that, but try to look at it from the "average" players perspective.

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[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 07-28-1999).]

Offline bod

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Engine Management
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 1999, 02:41:00 PM »
I agree 100% with most of you here.

I also think that if the game was to have more complex engine management, or more realistic navigation etc. that people will spend a lot more time offline, just training and having fun *initially*. Then when online, the time will be much more interesting and rewarding.

I dont *know* this, but it seems that it is no problem getting new people playing. the problem is that old guys are getting bored and quitting (or taking longer and longer leaves more and more frequently). If the learning curve is steeper (longer is a more correct word), than i believe a lot of people will stay for a whole lot longer simply because there are so many things to perfect.

Just my opinion.


Bod


A few things i forgot initially:

People are different, some play for score, some for strikes, some play just for fun,  some are dead serious and most are a little bit of everything...

Say, if there were 3 settings: easy, normal and advanced. A score multiplier would be applyied for the score (1x. 2x, 4x for instance) for the score mongers.

For the strike collector it would say: X in easy, Y in advanced ...

For the rest ? what difference does it make whatever mode he flies in? none what so ever, except to himself. This way the learning curve will be looong, but nice and relatively easy to climb.


Bod


[This message has been edited by bod (edited 07-28-1999).]