Author Topic: How many here believe in evolution?  (Read 15626 times)

Offline cajun

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #120 on: December 01, 2002, 05:24:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Samm
Kill off all but the 25% longest necked people, let them breed for a few thousand years and come back and kill off 75% of the population who's necks are shorter than only 25% of the population . Let them breed for a few thousand years and do it again . Repeat this proces for a few million years and you'd end up with some long necked mofos .

That's artificial natural selection . It's why domestic strawberries are so much larger than wild ones. They've been geneticaly altered through artificial natural selection .


Now how do you suppose it allways works that way, I mean only the taller monkeys survived? and then only the taller of the tall monkeys survived and on and on and on with every single species?
Lets figure out the chances of that.
there is a 50/50 chance of a tallmonkey and a short monkey surviving, lets say the tall monkey wins the first round, whats the chances of him winning again? since its 50/50 chance u half it, he now has 25% chance of wining, now lets say he was lucky enough to win AGAIN, now he has a 12.5% If he magically wins that round then he now has a 6.25% chance of winning and on and on and on!
Now do the same thing with the chances of each species winding up like this and u got pretty slim odds.

Offline Samm

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #121 on: December 01, 2002, 05:31:47 PM »
I'm sorry but I don't know what your talking about cajun . You believe there is some natural force that makes life more difficult for shorter monkeys ?

Offline eskimo2

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #122 on: December 01, 2002, 05:42:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cajun
Now how do you suppose it allways works that way, I mean only the taller monkeys survived? and then only the taller of the tall monkeys survived and on and on and on with every single species?
Lets figure out the chances of that.
there is a 50/50 chance of a tallmonkey and a short monkey surviving, lets say the tall monkey wins the first round, whats the chances of him winning again? since its 50/50 chance u half it, he now has 25% chance of wining, now lets say he was lucky enough to win AGAIN, now he has a 12.5% If he magically wins that round then he now has a 6.25% chance of winning and on and on and on!
Now do the same thing with the chances of each species winding up like this and u got pretty slim odds.


Its not always a 50/50 chance.  Being the tall monkey may mean that YOU are the monkey that always eats first because you may be better equiped to gather food or take food away from the short monkeys (and quite possibly the most likely to survive).  Being the tall monkey may also mean that your just big enough to intimidate that cheetah that lives in your neck of the jungle (they tend to play it safe and go after the smaller and weaker).  Being the tall monkey may also mean that all the monkey chicks dig you because, your..., well..., BIG.  This means that YOU are the monkey that gets to pass on his genes, while the smaller monkeys have to... spank you-know-what.

eskimo

Offline gatso

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #123 on: December 01, 2002, 06:01:40 PM »
Sisters X-Bf was 6 foot 10 and 20 stone. I can conclusively say that being a big monkey gets you served at a bar faster than a small monkey does.

Gatso

Offline Kieran

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #124 on: December 01, 2002, 06:14:22 PM »
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that's a nice parting shot tough guy but you were just as cowardly as the others


The thing I really grow tired of is responding to you with respect and getting these types of responses. I don't owe you anything where religion is concerned- you by your own admission have been well-schooled. I think you're wrong about your interpretations, but there isn't a single thing I can say to change your mind. I do respect your difference of opinion, however, and don't feel the need to call you names because I don't think like you.

I'm only human- sometimes I don't feel the point in engaging in a discussion where respect is one-sided.

But for giggles, here's what I think about the creation of man, and whether or not the translation should be taken literally or not- I don't know, I wasn't there. There is certainly ample reason to look at it either way... Jesus said "not a single word spoken by my father is changed", yet Jesus quite often spoke figuratively. The point is, it isn't very clear either way. Turn that into anything you want.

As far as the persecution complexes are concerned, it's pretty fair to say you have a hardon for Christians and Christianity in general. In other words, I may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. ;)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2002, 06:40:07 PM by Kieran »

Offline Thrawn

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #125 on: December 01, 2002, 06:21:27 PM »
The question is, if an american fetus evolved into a liberal would they still want the right to bear arms...and Palistine.

Whee whee whee.  Cripes lets talk about breasts or something.

Offline cajun

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #126 on: December 01, 2002, 07:31:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
Its not always a 50/50 chance.  Being the tall monkey may mean that YOU are the monkey that always eats first because you may be better equiped to gather food or take food away from the short monkeys (and quite possibly the most likely to survive).  Being the tall monkey may also mean that your just big enough to intimidate that cheetah that lives in your neck of the jungle (they tend to play it safe and go after the smaller and weaker).  Being the tall monkey may also mean that all the monkey chicks dig you because, your..., well..., BIG.  This means that YOU are the monkey that gets to pass on his genes, while the smaller monkeys have to... spank you-know-what.

eskimo


I see your point (and I thought about it when I was posting that message), but then how would we have evolved from strong 200-500 lbs apes/gorillas to weak humans?
But even if the chances were say 90%, figure that up and u still have pretty slim chances.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2002, 07:34:01 PM by cajun »

Offline DuBe

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #127 on: December 01, 2002, 08:04:38 PM »
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Originally posted by Samm
Which kingdom do humans belong to ? I forget, is plants or fungi ?


Only humans from New Jersey are occaisionally classified as Fungi.


DuBe

Offline eskimo2

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #128 on: December 01, 2002, 08:10:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cajun
I see your point (and I thought about it when I was posting that message), but then how would we have evolved from strong 200-500 lbs apes/gorillas to weak humans?
But even if the chances were say 90%, figure that up and u still have pretty slim chances.


What advantage do humans have over apes?  (Or all other creatures on this planet?)  What has made us so successful as a species?  Our freaky big brains perhaps?

Yes, we are the smart monkeys.

eskimo

Offline Samm

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #129 on: December 01, 2002, 08:18:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cajun
I see your point (and I thought about it when I was posting that message), but then how would we have evolved from strong 200-500 lbs apes/gorillas to weak humans?
But even if the chances were say 90%, figure that up and u still have pretty slim chances.


Actually, I may be wrong but if I remember correctly modern man, homo sapien sapiens, is larger than any of his recent ancestors . I still don't know what you mean with 50/50 and 90% and all that .

Everytime a person dies doing something stupid, or a panda starves to death, that's natural selection, that's evolution .

Offline Karnak

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #130 on: December 01, 2002, 08:37:23 PM »
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Originally posted by Hortlund
No, it is the other way around. Evolution is a theory. It is up to the one presenting the theory to prove that it is correct.

But at least we agree that there are no evidence in the fossil record for the evolutionists. At least nothing found so far.

You either completely fail to understand basic scientific method, are intentionally dishonest or are an idiot.

I'm betting on the first option as it seems to be the common denominator linking all the creationists I have talked to.  Science is not conducted via the legal system.  Inane refutations like yours carry no weight in science.


Point the first, no, that is not the way it works.  In science when a theory has been put forth for peer review, as the Theory of Evolution has been, it is then that it can be disproven by finding data that breaks the theory.  In the case of the Theory of Evolution no such evidence has yet been found.

Point the second, no we did not agree that the is no evidence in the fossil record.  We agreed that the fossil record in human posession is incomplete.  There is some supporting data in the fossil record.


All that aside, the strongest evidence in in the form of molecular biology and observed evolution.
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Offline eskimo2

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #131 on: December 01, 2002, 08:41:13 PM »
BTW,
You can't apply chance (like you have described) to the survival of the fittest componant/theory of evolution.  Big changes don't always take place by random chance.  They change a little bit at a time.

Things slowly adapt to fit their surroundings.

On mountains in Alaska you will find spruce trees that are surprisingly stubby and stout.  Up high, they are the only trees to be found.  Why?  Because they are the only trees that can survive huge snow and wind loads.  All of their taller ancestors were regularly crushed and blown over by snow and wind.  They've been conditioned over millions of years, the short tough, stubby one's surviving and passing on their genes that are better suited for the harsh, cold, mountain climates.

There are artificial ways that you can see how evolutionary changes take place.  Look at any breed of dog.  Each breed was bred for specific traights.  Breeders sought out dogs that exibited specific desirable traights that were best suited for certain jobs.  Only those dogs were allowed to breed.  Over several generations we now have Basset Hounds, Golden Retrievers, Chow Chows, etc.  All those variations, from wolves turned mans best friend!

eskimo
« Last Edit: December 01, 2002, 08:48:35 PM by eskimo2 »

Offline hardcase

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #132 on: December 01, 2002, 08:43:28 PM »
Enlightened and educated ppl must belive in Evolution. The alternative is an absurd children's story.

Random chace, DNA mutations and 2 billion years can do quite a lot of damage.

I like the story of the white moths in an English coal town. Over time, the trees and everything around got a coating of coal dust. The birds could see the moths easily. There were always a few mutations making them black. Over a 50 year period the white moths were selected out and the black ones given a safer niche. The white moths are now the mutation. They don't live long enought to reproduce.

HC

Offline OIO

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #133 on: December 01, 2002, 09:17:13 PM »
Cajun, its a gradual process. And btw, humans have far, far less in common (genetically) with gorillas than with "monkeys".

I'll take the small monkey vs tall monkey a bit further.

Lessay we now have mr. tall monkey who was once a small monkey. He is a big, tough, very muscular monkey (you know,  arboreal muscles and such).

Now mr. tall monkey has prospered and multiplied. Call this tall (in comparison with other monkey species) prosperous monkey the australopithecus (sp?) ancestor of humanity.

Mr tall monkey, after thousands and thousands of years, through trial and error and luck begins to use tools like a sharp stone or long sticks.

More thousands of years pass. Tall monkey becomes more adept at using his tools...something that other monkeys of the time apparently did not catch on to.. but something happens to this tall monkey!

The use of tools begins to change him. First it improves his longevity and survival chances. Bone and stone tools now let him skin animals they kill, as time passes the sharp stones allows the species to CUT meat into snack size, making the need for large canines and massive jaws no longer be a survival trait.

Along the way some nutcase begins to play with fire. A primitive "industrial revolution" begins. Fire allows better tools, better food, PROTECTION, they dont freeze in the winter, reduction of calories needed to survive per day (less food needed to fight off the cold), etc, etc.

More thousands of years, these tools, now used to make clothing and basic hunting tools make our ancestors shed their animal like body hair, the jaw becomes smaller, the body leaner and less muscular and taller (height=more field of vision) and begin to walk upright. Homo erectus, homo abilis, etc etc. Cranial size is the one and only thing that seems to INCREASE in this species while the rest of its body becomes more agile,dexterous and precise, and less strong.

And you get humans. Nothing more than some stupid monkey that through thousands and thousands of years did trial and error and changed itself by changing its enviroment and its way of life through tools which ended up in turn, changing the species.

And Humans werent the only monkey to do it apparently. Cromagnon humans seem to have "split" from the tall monkey tree at the start and evolved its own way... this monkey kept its brute strength and big jaws,  but its head did not grow as much as the other tall monkey. The result? The 2 met, the smarter monkey beat the crap out of them, or simply were better equipped to survive in a changing world (ice ages).

Trial, error and luck. That about sums evolution & natural selection.

Offline -ammo-

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How many here believe in evolution?
« Reply #134 on: December 01, 2002, 09:38:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hardcase
Enlightened and educated ppl must belive in Evolution. The alternative is an absurd children's story.

HC


For an "enlightened and educated person", you must be pretty stupid to make a broad statement like that. Think about it.

no offense of course
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