On Suicide bombing.

[Tilt]

Reading most of the above my opinion would be as follows........ to combine HT's jabo concern with the kamikazi buff concern.



Add an attack perk column.............

If you load bombs (or rockets, or a cannon bigger than 30mm) you are in attack mode (no choice)

If you choose formation (or a 4 engined bomber)you are in bomber mode.

You pay  a deposit for bombs at 500lbs and above (0.5 perk per 500 , 1 per 1000, etc) (from either your attack points or bomber points depending on  your choice above) which is returned upon successful landing.

Drone load outs come free..........you only pay for yours.

If you are in bomber mode you can only release via f6 position.


So

1)persistant suicide jabo bombers end up being forced to use smaller bombs...... (they run out of attack perks) their effectiveness is reduced.
2)Formations and big bombers cant dive bomb....... and would tend toward more historically correct load outs.....
3)Non formation Ju88's, Bostons,B26's, arado's can dive bomb as attack planes.
4) The C47 would become an attack plane......which is sort of correct.
5)Yak9T, HurriIID and any future P39/Ju87G would always be attack AC.
6)Certain jabo's would always be forced to buy bombs unless the 100kg was available to the IJN/LWvariants and the 250llb to the typhoon.
7) The lanc would always have to buy bombs unless the 250llb was made available.

[Obear1971]

CAnt you just make EVERY level bombers bombs non effective on the CV, so only dive bombers could take it out??

I dont recal any level bombers takeing out CV's in real life, i though it was only dive bombers?

[ET]

Don, thanks. I'll check out the 5th. I knew about Ploesti, they were sent in at 500 ft. or close to that altitude.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by KYridgeRunner
Simple,

When in a B17/lanc you can only drop bombs if  you are in the [F6]  bomber position, that way the plane will be level and if an attempt was made for a dive when you enter the bomber position it will mostlikly rip the wings off.

Problem:  B17/Lanc dive bombing CV

Solution:  Bombs can only be dropped from the F6 view
                bomber position.

NEXT!!

KY I think the weight of this argument lies more with suicide JABO as opposed to heavies.  I've only seen a few heavy bomber formations suicide run on CV's or even bases.  It's the huge amount of JABO suicide planes that are the real problem (I've yet to see a CV NOT get hit by at least a few of these.. not to mention the Typh/Pony mass attacks).

[Hawklore]

#1 Want it realistic? Go with no

#2 Want the suiciding to stop and the scoring games to begin? Go with yes.

[Voss]

I did not read every post in this thread, so please forgive me if this is suggested elsewhere.

HT, rather than this approach why not simply make anything smaller then a 1k egg useless against CVs and cruisers? To see a Spitfire dive bomb or strafe a CV to death just seems wrong. To see a P38 make repeated rocket attacks appears likewise. Also, it would be nice if only direct hits with those same 1k eggs did full damage. I understand that 'under the hull' explosions would crack the hull, but I do not believe that near misses could sink a CV like they do here.

Also, I think the fleet ack needs to be just a tad more effective. Not the proximity weapons, but just the tracer type ack.

I did get so far as to see someone suggest limiting dive bombing angles for level bombers and that appears to have some merit.

Suicide attacks have thier place in desperation, but strafing attacks on a CV is very dweebish.

[fffreeze220]

Why are most of u guys speaking of realism ???
This is a game and will ever be a game.

The point is to make it more enjoyable for all of us. So we facing the situation that a new rule will be implemented.

Great is that we are involved and that our opinion is asked.

Do we want to have a quake arena or a kind of a simulator ?
IMO since the player base raised by so many new players we flying in a big worl where everybody is fragging around.

Due to the fact that, with the large ammount of new players, we have now very many players who doesnt care about the main Goal which is working together, instead the grab the first plane they cant click inthe hanger and hit the runway to fly to the target.

If we want to keep AH in the ways a Flight SIm should be and was before something need to be done.

ANd the way to limit ordinance and perk it so u have to take care about what u doing with it is the best IMO.
I would also like the idea to perk every bomb and u wouldnt get the points back even if u stay allive.

IN REAL WAR, lol, the bombs werent priceless.

[BUG_EAF322]

Perk the place he took off from.

[Blue Mako]

It has been said, and I agree, that the best way to limit the dweeby suicide behaviour is to place a penalty upon dieing.

Other games make you wait for the end of a round before respawning so why shouldn't we have something similar here?

If you want to take off from the same base you previously spawned from, apply the following:

5mins to respawn a fighter
10mins to respawn a bomber (takes longer to bomb up etc)
30 sec - 1 min to respawn a gv

If you want to use a different base, no wait time.

This will penalise people for suiciding and will have the added bonus of limiting vulching as a way to rack up heaps of kills...

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Blue Mako
This will penalise people for suiciding and will have the added bonus of limiting vulching as a way to rack up heaps of kills...

The other bonus is that I'd have a lot of free time after cancelling my AH account.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Gryffin]

Originally posted by Blue Mako
and will have the added bonus of limiting vulching as a way to rack up heaps of kills...

Sorry mako, but this isn't a bonus

[Heater]

Use a timer, i.e. the bomb has to be released and fall for 2 sec before it is armed, Just my two cents

[-tronski-]

IMO kamakazi (intentional or not) runs are a valid tactic, just as continously spawning a capped field is just as suicidal.
IF a suicide run takes out a CV, then too bad for the defenders who didn't have a stout enough defence.

IN REAL WAR, lol, the bombs werent priceless.

Yeah...but since when did the crew have to pay for them?

There should be more encouragement for buffing, not less...like perking bombs or whatever . It's hard enough to buff as is. Over a hot field...managing to balance the bombsite, and the guns...just to drop and get killed and have it mean nothing....
I've dive bombed GV's in a B-26 when in a jam...I should'nt be discouraged for having a go.

Give each side an allotment of ord, linked to a strategic supply .

Or simply change the ord. Give an option for armour piercing bombs, or HE. when it comes to the CV or just leave it as is....

 Tronsky

[emodin]

I agree that there are people who deliberately suicide in order to make sure they are going to hit their targets, but the only way I see of reducing the occurences of this is by punishing the player him/herself. The problem is in how you would determine the "intention" of the pilot. The only thing I can think of would be to penalize the pilot if they augered within a certain period of time after dropping the bombs, while at the same time they had not received sufficient damage to render them unable to avoid the ground. I don't know if it is possible/feasible to code this. The potential for the current proposal to punish those of us who have the dumb luck to get shot down while in the process of trying to extend from our bombing/jabo run, IMHO outweighs the benefits of stopping the suicide bombers.

I like the idea of limiting the ability of true level bomber to release their ordinance when they are in the bombsite only. This should eliminate the use of level bombers as dive bombers.

As far as perking bomb loads, I must say that I am against this for several reasons. First, this would potentially increase the number of jabo flights needed to take FH/BH/VH/ect down. Furthermore, I need 1k bombs to take out FlakPanzers and Panzers. Throw into this mix the upcoming Tiger tanks, and you have a reall need for being able to roll a jabo with 1k bombs on demand to take out enemy GVs. 500lb bombs don't seem to cut it when it comes to killing FPs/Mk4s; unless, that is, you land them practically on top of the target...something that I personally have a hard time doing consistently. That extra blast from the 1ks comes in really handy in near-miss situations.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by emodin

As far as perking bomb loads, I must say that I am against this for several reasons. First, this would potentially increase the number of jabo flights needed to take FH/BH/VH/ect down. Furthermore, I need 1k bombs to take out FlakPanzers and Panzers. Throw into this mix the upcoming Tiger tanks, and you have a reall need for being able to roll a jabo with 1k bombs on demand to take out enemy GVs.  

But I think this is the whole point of the thread. HT is looking for a way to limit the effectiveness of the Suicide Bomber (be it Jabo or Level).

If you perk the ordinance, you somewhat force pilots to try and survive the Jabo attack. So you will not need more planes to Jabo a field. You can still load-out as you like, but you'll need to get you plane home, unless you want to lose the perks you paid for the bombs.

Run out of bomb perks, no more bombs. You'll have to up something with Cannons and use them to kill ground target to build up your Ordinance points. This is the only way I can see that will eliminate, or at least greatly reduce the suicides. Sooner of later, these pilots will run outta perks, and therefore be out of the suicide bomber business.

Use the GV perks we already have, if you like. (Have'nt really thought this through). We don't use them. Draw the ordinance perks from your attack perks.

I still think it's the best way to go.