Author Topic: On Suicide bombing.  (Read 8316 times)

Offline funkedup

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #180 on: December 03, 2002, 05:11:11 PM »
In Wing Leader, Johnnie Johnson recounts Lancasters bombing motorized columns and making strafing runs in Normandy.

Offline eskimo2

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #181 on: December 03, 2002, 05:15:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
In Wing Leader, Johnnie Johnson recounts Lancasters bombing motorized columns and making strafing runs in Normandy.


Speaking of Lancasters,
How about those Dam-Busters!

Talk about multi-engined suicide dweebs!

(Just kidding, with all due respect)

eskimo

Offline funkedup

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Re: On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #182 on: December 03, 2002, 05:16:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Been toying with the idea that ordanance has  little or no effect if you are not still living for a given period of time (around 30 secs) after impact.


What do you gents think?

HiTech


I don't like it.

I think stopping suiciders might mean you have to give their virtual life some value.  Disincentives to rapidly repeated dying and respawning.  
Keep track of "suicides / time" using the condition above (if you are not still living for a given period of time after impact).  Have the system give a warning and then if they keep doing it, take away perk points or let them only spawn a 202 or a Hurri I or something like that.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2002, 05:22:28 PM by funkedup »

Offline ccvi

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #183 on: December 03, 2002, 05:43:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Anyway new thought on same item.

I could implement it this way.

Items are destroyed on impact.

If player dies do to self destruct, i.e. crash or own bomb blast, with in certain time target is restored.


I don't think it's a good idea to undo damage.

Maybe it's possible to inhibit explosion of the bomb if at the moment of explosion death is inevitable for the player who dropped the bomb?

Inevitable death could be calculated from
a) player within expected blast radius of the bomb
b) output of a map of dive angle, speed and height exceeds a limit.

Offline Quick

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Re: On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #184 on: December 03, 2002, 05:48:16 PM »
Originally posted by hitech
<< What do you gents think? >>

Don't care for the idea... If you drop them they should explode regardless if you're there to see the results or not. (reality)

Offline hazed-

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #185 on: December 03, 2002, 06:07:56 PM »
how about the buildings dont reup but the score and perks for the player who died are not given and a virtual black mark is received.

if a player gets 5 black marks then he is restricted to 250lb bombs for a set time or even banned from using any bombs for a set time (maybe a week or a day or something?)

possibly also a public announcement in text like ' has just suicided his aircraft. black marks=xxx' X being the number of marks they have in total over their entire career.
maybe this will be enough to embarrass players into stopping? :)


'hazed has suicided his aircraft. black marks= 256' would sure make me feel stupid ;) hehe

Offline Tumor

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Re: Re: On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #186 on: December 03, 2002, 06:28:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Quick
Originally posted by hitech
<< What do you gents think? >>

Don't care for the idea... If you drop them they should explode regardless if you're there to see the results or not. (reality)


Not singling you out Quick, but having seen this opinion a number of times in this thread I thought I'd make a small statement to all...

I find this simply to be the ultimate defensive statement of the suicide bomber.

The "reality" of the situation would dictate that if the pilot dies, the chances are his bombs are off to at least some degree anyway... probably quite a bit.  Even today, even GPS guided bombs are not 100% accurate.  LGB's?  Dead pilot means no hit (unless you have a dude lazing from the ground or a buddy laze)

Why not have (oh gosh.. force) people to learn to place thier bombs with some level of skill and accuracy combined with the goal of staying alive?  There are plenty of alternatives to Aces High if dying has ~no~ bearing (other than score).

If not the MA... I dearly hope the mission theatre brings with HiTech's idea.

The suicide bomber (abuser) needs to be dealt with.  IMHO I don't really care if a few bombs don't make it to target.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2002, 06:35:23 PM by Tumor »
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Offline rod367th

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #187 on: December 03, 2002, 07:22:14 PM »
Why do some of you THINK bombsites don't work. I'll bomb HQ from 30k and hit my targets, If you fly bomber and bombsite doesn't work see me.



 I killed 7 cv's in 2 hrs today Not one was suicide attack landed all planes or was shoot down by con after.


 you only have to be 8k to live during bombrun on cv. ^k is close you'll get bombs off but 1 or more planes die.



 There are alot of bombers in here that know how to use bombsite. Because they took time to learn it.

Offline ALF

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Re: On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #188 on: December 03, 2002, 07:39:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Been toying with the idea that ordanance has  little or no effect if you are not still living for a given period of time (around 30 secs) after impact.


What do you gents think?

HiTech



I really dont like the idea of my bombs I drop from 20k (and take a good 30 seconcs to get to target) becoming nerf balls if I get killed afterwords.

I certainly understand that some aparently are abusing the current bombing system with suicide bombing attacks, but I dont think that solution would be the best one.  I beleive a few things would really help reduce/eliminate the evils of suicide bombers.

[list=1]
  • No negative G bomb drops
  • No bomb drops from bomb bay from cockpit, ONLY from bombadier position (possible exception for TBM and such)
  • Specialized armor piercing bombs, that do damage to capital ships, regular bombs do 1/4 damage or whatever, and restrict AP bombs from high alt bombers (giving the TBM and such a reason for being flown)
  • [/list=1]

    I would just hate to see bombers neutered in the way you describe for many reasons, especially when you figure that it would make the Ostie a virtual impervious vehicle, he gets to keep firing after I hit him with my bomb for 30 seconds to kill me a negate my kill?

Offline ZePolarBear

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #189 on: December 03, 2002, 07:47:20 PM »
HiTech:

I assume part of why you are looking at this way of implementing a negative impact on suicide jaboing is that it is easy to implement.

I am assuming that you would just add a timer function to the hangar object since you already pass CPID ( in order to credit perks) and bomb wieght ( or damage to apply) and it would just be a matter of the timer waiting until either X seconds expires or the pilot dies without a kill being awarded ( whatever state that may be)... quick question on this is that if somebody gets a proximity kill does the damage count since by logic a Kill has been awarded or do you cover that state as well.

Anyway, in terms of other ways to implement it, I assume that perking the bombs isn't a good option because that means you have to add the whole perk armament infrastructure which may be on your roadmap but not for 1.11.

Now assuming that the bomb object passes it's damage amount to the hangar or other target object as long as whatever arbitrator you use determines a "hit" has occured then perhaps the best trade-off between effort and desired effect would be to code in some internal fuzing into the bomb.  The algorithm you use I'm not going to go into but the effect would be to have the damage value passed to the object be 0( or a reduced percentage of total damage) if fuzed=False.  Easiest to implement would be altitude above target of release, but could also take in parameters for Plane speed to do the velocity model. Then force a return out of the fuzing mechanism (started at drop) when impact occurs and if True it counts, if false then no count.  One or more extra parameters into the bomb object, no extra ones out.  The other benefit would be that it naturally allows the jabo's to jabo and allows the buffs to buff.

In terms of the dive-bombing buffs, I think you can reach a good trade off by forcing the buffs to use the f6 sight IF they have one AND  IF they have more than 2 engines.  Would allow a single modification at a fairly high class in terms of inheriting code, avoids the whole internal versus external bombload issue, allows planes that were mixed level bomb and shallow attack to continue to be so and hopefully the same bomb modification mentioned above will keep them from doing the suicide jabo thang.  In addition, none of the planes that lack this restriction carry a bombload high enough to kill a cv by themselves.  Also keeps you from having to differ in the plane model the type of ordinance carried.

Hope this addresses it from you perspective hiTech.

ZPB

Offline rod367th

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #190 on: December 03, 2002, 08:02:56 PM »
PERK CHANNEL 1

Offline Don

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #191 on: December 03, 2002, 10:59:31 PM »
A whole lotta discussion about an issue that, IMO, can be simply rectified:
1. adjust the FM so 4 engined buffs can't dive bomb; they're not supposed to
2. suicide jabos; ya can't legislate how dweebs will game the game unless you penalize everyone else; simply unfair.
3. ditch the notions about perking bombs! Some would perk anything beyond all reason
4. the dweebs will be dweebs regardless of what you do. They are few in number, generally. They are the type who will milk a base until opposition arrives, then they will fade away.
Strangely enough, they are paying customers too.  And it isnt just the new pilits who will suicide bomb things. I have gotten more lame excuses from self professed expert pilits for doing a kamikaze on a target, than anyone else.

I say, don't waste your energy HT. You have enough on your plate, and I would prefer your energies expended on more worthwhile pursuits related to the game.

Best wishes.

Offline K-KEN

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #192 on: December 03, 2002, 11:06:50 PM »
My take, and as echoed by a few, is that once pickled, it should count and do damage.  This too, might be effective as a Kamakazi as well.  Not a good prospect, but it fits well with the realism in WWII.  Carrier defenses will get most Kamakazis, but one or 2 might get thru!.  BONZAI!

Back to reality............I vote that all ordnance expended prior to death is live and will hit or miss the objective.  Arming at certain altitudes should not be considered relevant.  If it was dropped, it was armed.  Only nuclear weapons had that type of arming protocol, that I am aware of.  And that was in the 60's,  long after WWII.  I could be wrong about that too.  I was on a TitanII Missile Crew for 8 years..........I know my nukes  :)  


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Offline moose

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On Suicide bombing.
« Reply #193 on: December 04, 2002, 01:12:27 AM »
The idea of not awarding perk points to those who dont live is one I like.

Perk the bombs on fighters. Cheaply. Either the 1000s and maybe even the 500s, but not anything less. There is a money system in game, use it! 2 - 5 perks for a big bomb wont hurt the jaboers. Planes like the SBD, D3A, etc etc, will benefit from this as well because heavy ord for them wont be perked.

You have to find a way to promote living instead of penalizing dying. You find a way to make it much more worthwhile to live instead of suiciding, and you've solved your problem. Plus the solutions are much more realistic then some of the penalties I've read so far.

I hope you read this hitech, a lot of whines in this thread but Sunkings idea is the best i've seen.
<----ASSASSINS---->

Offline KYridgeRunner

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Lets settle this now......
« Reply #194 on: December 04, 2002, 04:42:12 AM »
Simple,

When in a B17/lanc you can only drop bombs if  you are in the [F6]  bomber position, that way the plane will be level and if an attempt was made for a dive when you enter the bomber position it will mostlikly rip the wings off.

Problem:  B17/Lanc dive bombing CV

Solution:  Bombs can only be dropped from the F6 view
                bomber position.

NEXT!! :D