On Suicide bombing.

[2Slow]

Originally posted by hitech
Been toying with the idea that ordanance has  little or no effect if you are not still living for a given period of time (around 30 secs) after impact.


What do you gents think?

HiTech

IMHO, not a good idea.  A bomb released is an unguided armed weapon.  I drop on a town and attempt an egress over the adjacent base.  Not a good idea, but it will happen.  Base AAA shoots me down.  Valid weapons delivery on the town is then negated?

[Sleight]

Maybe if we only allowed Japanese planes to kamikaze...

[Tarmac]

Level bombing angle limits and perking 1K bombs on JABO planes seem more realistic and more effective than a 30-sec death rule.  

In addition, cancelling ordinance damage if the attacker dies would make torpedo runs even more difficult than they already are.  It's hard enough to get close enough to drop torps accurately, let alone get away in one piece.  I guess you could call torpedo runs suicide dweebery then, but they were pretty suicidal IRL.  

Or would an exception be made for torpedo runs?  That opens a whole new can of worms.  

Anyway, very cool that HT came to the BB for input.  Much appreciated.

[Midnight]

No Way.

How could this even possibly work? This would be a horrible disaster for JaBos that are actually fighting to live.

Example:
[color = blue]You drop your bombs on an Ostwind and score a perfect hit. Now you start climbing away and during that 29th second, the Osti gets a lucky shot on you from 2.0K and kills your pilot.

Now the Osti lives and you are dead in tower, when it should be the Osti that just had 1000lbs of bombs dropped on his head.[/color]

bombs should explode on impact. The pilot shouldn't have to wait 30 seconds to see if his bomb hit the target.

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How about all external ords become a PERK
HVAR = 1 perk each
100 lb bomb = 1 perk each
250 lb bomb = 2 perks each
500 lb bomb = 3 perks each
1000 lb bomb = 5 perks each
4000 lb bomb = 10 perks each

If you drop the bomb while in flight and you die your perk is spent. If you land or ditch, you get the perks back.

---

You want to know the best way to limit suicide bombers?

Make some sort of penalty for death other than instant respawn.

Please don't try to stop people from 'gaming the game' by adding more gamey features. Why can't we step up the realism and encourage people NOT to suicide bomb by improving the rewards for landing a sucessful mission.

How about : If you die on during sortie, you get 0 scoring in all catagories for that sortie.

[Wlfgng]

I like the idea, assuming you can code it, that the game differentiates between a plane that was shot down after it dropped it's bombs and a plane that augers after dropping.
This applies to Jabo planes.

Level bombers should have a minimum AOA.

[mkuebeler]

Originally posted by hitech
Been toying with the idea that ordanance has  little or no effect if you are not still living for a given period of time (around 30 secs) after impact.

Willing to bet a lot of "legitimate" (i.e., no intention of dropping and suiciding in) jabo attackers get shot down within 30 seconds of dropping.  That should not invalidate the drop.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by hitech
Been toying with the idea that ordanance has  little or no effect if you are not still living for a given period of time (around 30 secs) after impact.


What do you gents think?

HiTech

I prefer it as it is..... this seems too much of a fix/work around that moves away from the reality.

You will remember in the original AW format.......you had to live until your bombs hit.............(bombs only happened in the FE).........

Personally I thought it better afterwards (although AH is better still cos it does not award bomb damage points after death (i think))


If you (and every one else) sees a crater then it should have done some damage IMHO.

A point made elsewhere about dive bombing lancs although suicidal was slightly different in nature................. you could solve this via a different route (given resources) by disabling bomb release on bombers with internal loads beyond certain angles of inclination......or even above certain speeds.........


I like the idea of buying certain load outs with perk points............

Use it for big bombs, various 30mm options, the 3rd cannon on an La7 etc etc...........perks are returned when the ac is brought back.

[brady]

I agree somthing must be done to discurage this, but I am not shure using an unrealistic penatality to fix an unrealistic game aspect is the answer.

 When I drop on a CV in lets say a P38 and I am pulling out I am not going to just fly leval so the fleat ack can kill me, nore am I going to do this while over a field. I am going to wiggle around to avoid being hit by ack.

 I appricate you giving it some thought thpough HiTech, very cool.

[SunKing]

Would this apply to suicide jabo runs.. the lone  tiffie that flys the 5mins to straffe fuel and dies on the realse of his entire rocket salvo?

[midnight Target]

All of you former AWers forget that this is just like AW. If you lived long enough for your bombs to hit they were good. If you died before impact ... no joy.

I think 30 seconds is too long, but the concept is good.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

I love it I don't agree Ripsnort as dying doesn't mean anything compared as real life in WW2.

Make that 10 seconds only, plenty enough.

Or ... to accomodate Ripsnort and it's suicidal benefits, let the bombs kaboom the target but the guy cannot reup for 5 minutes if he just died within 10 seconds of his bomb drop. Kind off "suicide if it's your choice but pay the price".

[Soda]

You have to be careful when you simply "take-away" an option.  In a void the next most, or maybe more, dweeby tactic will emerge and in 6 months everyone will be back to complaining.  I don't think a simple "survive 30 seconds" thing is fair if that thing gets to continue firing back at you for 30 seconds while you wait out the timer.

Let's face it, in terms of attacking CV's, only level bombing or suicide attacks work.  Shore batteries are useless (too hard to aim, no target track, 30+ hits to sink CV), torpedo attacks are hopeless (dangerous approach, easy turning CV's, short range, no aiming tools, torpedos barely faster than CV), the real dive bombers have no advantages (SBD or Val has almost no bomb load, at least compared to something like a Suicide Lanc or P-47).  If you take away the suicide jabo then either it'll be nearly impossible to attack, or some other tactic will emerge that may be even worse.  If some/all of these were addressed then there might be lots of valid options for success and people might not have to resort to some of the ugly tactics.

Bravo to HT for posting something like this for discussion though, it opens up ideas and can help iron out issues before something is changed....

-Soda
The Assassins.

[HFMudd]

What if your bombs only did damage if your airframe was outside the blast radius of your own bombs?  That ought to stop the dive and pickle at the last moment attack which, as I understand it, is the problem.

[Yeager]

HT,

Thanks for considering possible ways to limit the effectiveness of suicide bombers.  Unfortunately, with endless lives this tactic is valid.  Obviously, there will be things that can be implimented to lesson the effectiveness of suicide bombers.

Personaly, I dont like the idea of tying the result of a bomb drop or rocket attack to a time lapse.  Too risky for real time simulated  warfare.

Some things to consider:
Create a max AoA and Speed for bomb release from certain heavy bombers.

Make it so that in order to carry ord you have to select the "Attack" button and create a perk penalty that subtracts points for lives lost in the "Attack" mode.  Also while in "Attack" mode create perk pay for ordinance (admittedly, a more thorough implmentation of the perk system would be required and is overdue anyway).

Just some twobit thoughts on the subject.

[eagl]

Many of you gents are confusing AOA (Angle of Attack) with climb/dive angle.  AOA is the angle at which your wind hits your wing, so you can have a zero AOA with the aircraft in ANY attitude, straight up, straight down, level, inverted, whatever.

I think some of you are suggesting dive/climb angle release limits for heavy bombers, and G limits for releasing bombs from any aircraft.  This would be realistic.  Even modern attack fighters and bombers have fairly severe release limits.  Release at high G and the release mechanism may jam, and releases at less than about .5 G's can be hazardous due to the possibility of the bomb coming back and impacting the aircraft.  There are also max speed release limits due to aerodynamic factors (for example, at transsonic and supersonic speeds, bombs released from F-15 and F-14 aircraft may simply fall a few feet then fly back up and ride the shock wave banging into the plane) and also again due to stresses on the release mechanism and possible binding or partial weapons release.

That might be something worth implementing as a feature rather than spending time coding something deliberately unrealistic in an effort to change Main Arena gameplay.

eagl

Whoops, hope I don't get muted for typing "coming".