Author Topic: On Suicide bombing. (Read 8110 times)

SOB · « **Reply #60 on:** December 02, 2002, 09:43:54 PM »

LOL! You are a grumpy bastard!

"So take your holier-than-thou attitude and stuff it in your piehole."

That was beautiful, but you still whine like a girl.

SOB

NUKE · « **Reply #61 on:** December 02, 2002, 09:46:12 PM »

keep HiTech's thread on topic for cod's sake.

eagl · « **Reply #62 on:** December 02, 2002, 09:48:23 PM »

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LOL! You are a grumpy bastard!

I'm out of percoset and haven't been able to get a full night's sleep in over a week. And the f**king neurosurgeon can't see me for another 11 days (AKA "2 weeks"). How's YOUR day going?

You're still a preachy twit.

eagl

Maybe I'll get muted for typing "preachy twit"...

SOB · « **Reply #63 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:10:17 PM »

Well, I only had two classes today, and in the first one I got 100% on the last quiz before the final. Plus, this entire week is just review for finals, so it's cake. After that, I went to Changs, and ate a bunch of Lamb. Then, I took a nap, followed by going to friend's house to BS about our stupid movie. After I got home, I went on the Intardnet and relaxed. So, all in all, pretty good.

You're still a grumpy bastard, and I'm not sure what I was preaching - except maybe that repitition can get old.

SOB

easymo · « **Reply #64 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:22:51 PM »

I thought they decided to call them Homicide bombings.

Innominate · « **Reply #65 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:26:10 PM »

Just perk 500 and 1000lb bombs for jabos.

+2 perks for each 500lb bombs and +5 for each 1000. +10 for 2000lb bombs(*cough*p38*cough*) Lose em if you die. This would not only help reduce suicides, but also encourage people to use the lightest possible load, adding to realism. Rather than the usual maxed bombload.

Add a dive angle restriction to level bombers.

Reduce the total ordnance needed to damage all hangars.(except for HQ) Mainly hangars, 1500 for an airfield hangar and 500 for a VH hangar. (Maybe 500 for ANY VH, and 1500 for FH/BH's)

Perking bombs, and eliminating divebombing effectivness for bombers will make things somewhat more realistic, but without reduced hardness settings, will only serve to encourage more furballing, and less attempting to take a base. Perking the heavy bombs, will severely restrict ordnance carrying, which is often already unavailable(due to people furballing, and never carrying ord). Reducing the hardness will make the perk bombs more effective, while penalizing suicide bombing.

It will also encourage bomber use, and use of the level bombsight, since the damage capability of the bombers will severely outweigh that of the free jabos.

Gryffin · « **Reply #66 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:41:53 PM »

I vote for just increasing the arming time for bombs after they are released.

Shiva · « **Reply #67 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:44:53 PM »

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Originally posted by gatso
For buffs with a bombsite only allow bombs to be released from the bombsite view. (auto level - no dive bombing)

This screws the Ju88 and Ar234, both of which were historically used for dive bombing (albeit shallow dives for the Ar234).

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Originally posted by Yeager
Make it so that in order to carry ord you have to select the "Attack" button and create a perk penalty that subtracts points for lives lost in the "Attack" mode. Also while in "Attack" mode create perk pay for ordinance (admittedly, a more thorough implmentation of the perk system would be required and is overdue anyway).

I like the idea of automatically making the selection of external ordnance flip you into 'Attack' mode, but if you do this, you would also want to change perk determination, and award perk points only for destruction of ground targets when in 'Attack' mode, which would give people a disincentive to hang around and furball after dropping instead of RTBing.

NUKE · « **Reply #68 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:47:02 PM »

not to be redundant, but AW ( I think) had a limit on the angle that a buff could release a bomb.

Wouldnt this be a good way to solve the problem?

ET · « **Reply #69 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:48:01 PM »

Can it be coded so level buffs who are supposed to use bombsight can't drop unless they are level and the bomb bay doors do not open until altitude is at least 8K.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #70 on:** December 02, 2002, 11:15:38 PM »

Strategies and tactics existed to minimilize air casualties. In AH that is not the case. Effectiveness is the sole goal since there really isn't such a thing as bieng a casualty.

I think altering the bomb damage is the only way to promote some resemblance of realistic strategies and tactics. As AH sits right now, the bombing game is totally gamey. You know exactly how much you need to drop and exactly where the targets will be. You know that you only need to point your nose straight down and press the trigger and your bombs will destroy the target. Hell... even a CV. And you know that the bomb you just released is guaranteed to shut something very specific down.

Every action in the MA is based on cause an effect. What damage can you cause and what is the effect on you? The absence of a penalty for dieing (other than score) has skewed the balance between the two and has served to create an extremely unrealistic attack style.

And.. the one thing that people somewhat seem to be forgetting. If you get killed and your bombs don't destroy something, you get to try again... with more experience this time. Unlike the real thing, where the people that learned lessons the hard way did not get to reap the benifits.

AKDejaVu

eskimo2 · « **Reply #71 on:** December 02, 2002, 11:16:05 PM »

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Originally posted by ET
Can it be coded so level buffs who are supposed to use bombsight can't drop unless they are level and the bomb bay doors do not open until altitude is at least 8K.

Bombers did operate and bomb from low levels, even very low levels.

eskimo

ET · « **Reply #72 on:** December 02, 2002, 11:30:54 PM »

Eskimo, can you cite some cases ? What type and and altitude ?
I'd like to read up on it.

Wotan · « **Reply #73 on:** December 03, 2002, 12:00:54 AM »

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This screws the Ju88 and Ar234, both of which were historically used for dive bombing (albeit shallow dives for the Ar234).

Ideally shiva the ju88 and 234 should have a dive bomb site. As for the 234 even the level bombsite is wrong. I posted in another thread about this.

Fighter bomber 190s attacked at low level as well. The armoing of the bomb is not a result of alt but travel time. At 500 ft at and 350mph I can drop a bomb and it will arm and explode at 150mph it wont.

"Perk for bomb weight" basically handicaps Axis attack aircraft even more then now. What reason would you risk the "perk" value of an f8/stuka bomb or whatever when you can fly an f6f or p51d or p38 or jug.

The suicide jabos raids we see now are not disruptive because they die or blow things up and die. Hell if someone wants to up and kill themselves let him. The problem comes with a raid of 50 of these guys and 75% kill themselves. Its no fun chasin umm around. I upped at one field and got 6 kills without firing a shot. And the base was up ack and all.

So you perk 1k bombs and the 50 suicide jabos guys show up with 500s. Their kill per structure will still be 5 deaths to 1 field object destroyed.

They only thing that will change this is a shift from field capture as a trigger to reset to a strat model that is based on bombers. Fighter bombers and land grabbing will be secondary.

The dive bombing lancs and b17s otoh is just stupid. If ht can disable bomber guns on the ground and "car bombing" then he ought to be able to make bombing at high gs or high angles go away as well. Low alt bombing should remain however.

Planes like the il2 stuka ju88 Ar 234 or any bomber that was used as a dive bomber (shallow dives included) should be exempt.

Innominate · « **Reply #74 on:** December 03, 2002, 12:26:50 AM »

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Originally posted by Wotan

"Perk for bomb weight" basically handicaps Axis attack aircraft even more then now. What reason would you risk the "perk" value of an f8/stuka bomb or whatever when you can fly an f6f or p51d or p38 or jug.

So you perk 1k bombs and the 50 suicide jabos guys show up with 500s. Their kill per structure will still be 5 deaths to 1 field object destroyed.

The stuka will most likely be in the bomber category, with the other divebombers. (Although you can score them as an attack sortie they're still bombers) Perking the bombs on any bomber would obviously be counterproductive. As for the LW planes and such, loading two 1000lb bombs on a p38, would cost twice what a single 500kg would on a 190. Implemented as such, I don't see why LW gets hurt anymore than anything else.

As for the 1000lb bombs, the 500's probably should be perked also. Leave the smaller bombs which are effective for soft targets, and save the bigger bombs for specificly hardened targets. A large scale suicide attack with 250lb bombs would be fun to see.

Perking the 500/1000lb bombs, would push a large amount of the damage infliction in the direction of the bombers, which would make the divebombing lanc problem worse. And so we're back to limiting the dive angle for the level bombers.

All of these changes lined up makes inflicting damage on ground targets significantly harder, requireing targets like hangars to be made somwhat softer. But once this is done, we're left with a system where suicide attacks are less effective and more costly, while at the same time promoting the use of bombers.