To the guys that have been here awhile

[1776]

Was better befor Pongo signed up too:)

[Wotan]

miss the fact that fights use to actually be spread out.

There was a large number of people scattered in between fields, mixed up between friendlies and enemies going at it.

Now, there's only a handful of people that will venture a lil ways away from their base and they promptly get shot down by the opposing hoarde.

Even with numbers advantages, these people are for the most part timid gang bangers and they don't go too far away from the pack.

Regardless of the map, this thing is turning more into "radish High" over run with late war uber rides.

Head2Head arenas are more fun, atleast they fight there.
-SW

Yup its not the map, its the general population.........However things get more aggravated in the larger map because there so much more for the hoard to go after.

I never viewed AH as something that can be "won". Resets always happened but the base capture seemed a side show to the a2a war. Now we have whole groups of folks who only play the  land grab reset game. They take the paths of least resistance whether it be undefended fields or suicide runs.

People wonder why ostwinds get the majority of the kills in ah. Its because everyone is busy killing themselves in the great land grab going for that reset.

Folks would rather die to ack or auger before fighting.

[Reschke]

I really liked the early days of AH I just could not afford to play in consecutive months.

The other night I had a great string of fights in defense of A48 (Mindanoa sp?) while flying for the Rooks. The Bish were constantly running up and trying to knock 48 out to get a clearer shot at our CV. I actually got into 4 consecutive fights with 3 different P-38's and a P-51. They were escorting a flight of B-17's to hit the base at A48. Too bad the bombers sucked because their escorts forced me and the other CAP fighters into playing with them. I was flying an F4U-1D in the fights so it really was not what I wanted as a matchup but the previous A6M2's and A6M5b's that came up off the Bish CV in the area were not a very exciting matchup. I must have flown for two hours up there fighting and defending the base and CV.

[Manedew]

here's what =TED= Does when the Gangbang crew shows up

[Beefcake]

Haha OZkansas, if anyone remembers when I first joined up I was such a "Little General". Remember how I would sweety constantly? I guess I've calmed down since then.

Ahh sometimes I miss the good ole days of AH.

When there were only 21 fields total on the map. (7 per side)

When bases only had 2 and 3 acks.

When there were no hangers.

When you could fly a goon at 200mph, 5 feet off the ground and drop all your troops out without even one of them getting a twisted ankle.

When the Osty and the La7 did not exist.

When taking up a HUGE force of B17s and escorts to bomb an enemy City and HQ actually MENT something.

Ahh there are too many memorys to post...all I can say is sometimes I miss the old days.

[Rude]

C'mon guys....don't ya get it?

It's always like this with everything in life....when it was new, it was more exciting...ya look back and remember how it was so much better back then.

I'm the same way about AWDOS, then WB's and now AH.... your first real girl friend or your first car, etc.

I agree, that AH is different and has lost that lovin feeling to some extent, but my faith remains with those who brought us here....patience will be rewarded.

In the meantime, probably accepting the fact that it will never be as sweet as you remember it, will help alot:)

[214thCavalier]

Its still not impossible to get a 1v1 in MA you just gotta try and tease 1 away from a gang bang by looking like an easy kill.
Problem is it takes time and you gotta look like your running to hook em far enough away from the crowd.
As for CAP i still enjoy it but it has changed in its short time, as you say it seems to be going in the direction of find a furball fast, perhaps it would be better if each event had more objectives to accomplish, over a wider area to force separation.
I know this will not apply to your squad Wotan but i also suspect the Axis rides in CAP are less appealing now as the allies planeset improves.
As for the MA sometimes i log off in disgust and go read a book, i have no interest in raping or being raped and its very rare you catch me vulching as thats not what i consider a fight.
You will usually find me fighting away from my squad for the simple reason i prefer not to gang the Rooks.
A good fight was definitely easier to find when the numbers were lower.
I reckon the mass land grab and gang banging is driven by those less skilled and noobs, safety in numbers kinda thing.
But wait is it coincidence it got worse around the time of the AW influx ?

[Wotan]

No its not the planeset in Cap, the 109f is more capable then a spit 5. It was my group of 12 against well over double our number in the last 2.  I cant sell that to the guys my squad. I cant sell tod when I have guys getting up at 4 and 5 am or staying up way late to fly around for an hour and 45 min to then after refuel run into double our number of 40k nme fighters and 27k bombers.

With 15 min to go you either run headlong and try to make a maricle happen or rtb and call it a night. I cant generate much excitement for the next one. I asked my guys about Cap. I heard the same things.

I am not complaining AH has a great appeal to allied flyers. Look at BoB. I had numerous openings. Not just in the typical bombers but 109e flights were empty and not even walkons to place.

Can you believe in a BoB scenario that in every frame their would be 109 e slots open? Lots of umm.

But thats different then the main. I dont necessarily seek 1 v 1s just anything other then 10 to 1 or run.

[Squire]

My biggest gripe on gameplay is the "unlimited life" aspect of all the arenas. It turns them mostly into low alt furball fighting. I tried it in AW, WB, and AH, and I am so done now with MA's of any kind. I fly there once in a while with a squaddie for "the heck of it" but my hearts not in it. Its just not that interesting.

The thing I like most about events is the 1 life per frame or, in the case of the CAP event, 1 life per 30 minutes. Pilots grab alt because they realise they dont get free lives if they blow the first one. To me, it makes a huge difference. There is a point to it all, and its the only place to get a decent "WW2" mission. You actually see bombers and escorts, that care wether they come back or not at the end of it.

Also I find there is a completely different community amongst the regular event flyers, its smaller, and more friendly. I found this in WB too in comparing MA to event play, big time.

Im not knocking MA, it will always pay the HTCs bills, so I can fly in the Snapshots and TODs. Each to their own.

A quick edit: I also think that there are issues of balance in events, true, but they are on a completely different order of magnitude to MA. I fly all the events, some work out ok, some dont but on the balalnce, they are still far and away the best flying.

[Wotan]

The thing about events now is they are all almost always object based in terms of victory. This leads to the very same gameyness you see in the main.

Capture XXX and win. Kill the 2 red buildings by the big black one or kill 80% of the black ones. etc........

Deaths and losses are never a factor in victory. So you may have 1 life but outside your wanting to last a while in the event that life has little bearing on the out come.

In the MT HT has indicated that mission success and surviving will be part of the equation.

What events lack now is way for a smaller force to win. When deaths/losses are factored in a small force can enflict enough damage as to achieve a "mission kill". Take a bomber mission in which a smaller forces engages and strips away an escort and a smaller force engages the bombers and kills 45% of them with very few losses. Even though the bombers get through and hit the 2 little buildings they hardly "won". But in ah they call that a victory.  Until this gets some how worked back into events in ah I just cant see them being any thing but ma like, but more boring.

In these events the Axis side is almost always outnumbered. Its impossible to stop a greater force smashing its way to target regardless of losses.

So I think the idea that events may be 1 life until that 1 life means something then I will have to pass.

[OZkansas]

Originally posted by Beefcake
Haha OZkansas, if anyone remembers when I first joined up I was such a "Little General". Remember how I would sweety constantly? I guess I've calmed down since then.

Ahh sometimes I miss the good ole days of AH.

When there were only 21 fields total on the map. (7 per side)

When bases only had 2 and 3 acks.

When there were no hangers.

When you could fly a goon at 200mph, 5 feet off the ground and drop all your troops out without even one of them getting a twisted ankle.

When the Osty and the La7 did not exist.

When taking up a HUGE force of B17s and escorts to bomb an enemy City and HQ actually MENT something.

Ahh there are too many memorys to post...all I can say is sometimes I miss the old days.

He heeeeeeee,ya remember ya being a General, heheeee.  You were also a commited B-17 driver too, I think you were the only one, as well as a goon driver:)

Remember Hang and what's his name having the big P-51 and LW duel in the MA and RAM, heheee,ya, RAM heheee,remember RAM?  The BBS filled with RAM comments heheeee!  The only guy who quit daily heheeeeeeeee!  What was his original name?

I wonder if ya could view that film of Hang and what's his name if the film showed up?  I think it was an exciting fight if memory serves me right.

[Squire]

"Take a bomber mission in which a smaller forces engages and strips away an escort and a smaller force engages the bombers and kills 45% of them with very few losses. Even though the bombers get through and hit the 2 little buildings they hardly won".

I have to agree 110 percent. I would also like to see a change in scoring some of these events too.  It should matter that pilots rtb their a/c.

Example: I would much rather see 1/3 of the B-17s get downed, and 1/3 of the P-51s lets say...Im just being hypothetical here...and say 1/3 of the LW gets downed and another 1/3 has to rtb for damage and ammo, scored upwards for the LW because they had fewer a/c to start with, and call that a tactical victory for them?, than forcing the LW to use near suicidal attacks to down all the bombers to technically "win" the frame, but almost 90 percent of the LW fighters are downed along with all of the B-17s.

Inflict losses, and get home, the target gets bombed, but its not scored strictly on BDA. Im just throwing a quick example up there, Im sure you get my gist. The fighters should not think they have to commit suicide by "stopping" all the bombers, that makes no sense. Not for event play. Also escorts have to rtb as well, they cant just expend the whole force on ack running, chasing cons past fuel limits, and fruitless dogfighting.

[eskimo2]

Wotan,

Arena size is just one factor that has changed since Beta.
Maps have changed,
Players have changed,
Planes and GVs have changed,
Strat has changed,
Bombers have changed,
You and I have changed,
And so on...

Two main arenas may help the matter, but I doubt that things would ever even remotly resemble the old Beta MA.

The closest thing to it... is of course... the CT.
What has been described in this thread is one of the reasons why I prefer to fly there.

eskimo

[Gixer]

Wotan: I totally agree with you I find the MA best under 300 players more then that and it just turns into a big mess especially with the old maps. And I can't stand the texture of the Pizza map so I don't include it.

I now try and avoid logging on at peak times. All up AH is starting to lose it's interest for me and seems more like Quake every day. Along with the aging (very fast these days) graphics and total lack of strategy I can see my account closing soon unless there are some changes on the way that offer alot more then a couple new planes and a redundent bomber.





...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers

[Blue Mako]

I think the biggest change in AH in the last year (player base wise that is) is the mindset that has developed.

Many are now perfectly happy to suicide, bail, ditch etc rather than try to survive a sortie.  It seems that the MA is now just another Quake server.  I guess it always was to a certain extent, it just didn't seem so prevalent before.

I also think the average courtesy level has dropped too.  Too much smack talking and not enough 's these days.  Most of the time I only see the old hands giving them out.