He-111 Bomber

[whgates3]

range & payload are not the only meritorius characteristics a bomber can have.  to avoid interception speed & ceiling are very important. catalina had neither. Pe-8 had the range of the PBY, twice the payload, a 90 MPH speed advantage and 2500m higher ceiling.  Yer-2 had the range of the PBY, 2/3 the payload, a 125 MPH speed advantage and 3200m higher ceiling.  just about every level bomber the soviets produced during the great patriotic war had tremendous advantages over the catalina in the areas of speed and ceiling

[hyena426]

there were only 79 p-8s made,,compared to how many pbys? but it is a good plane i have to say,fast,,but i dont think it was as reliable as the pby,,but what plane was,,lol,,think the pby is known for being very reliable<~~russian bombers were very unreliable till too late in the war,,it took them too long to copy everyones stuff:)<~~there motors were horrible and by the time they figured it out,,it was getting pretty late in the war,,and there production numbers were even worse,,,79 planes,,and they were pleaged with problems till the end of the war,,think last p-8 flew in 1950,,,cats are still in use today

[whgates3]

how many catalinas bombed berlin?
soviets had plently of good bombers early on - Pe-8s, Yer-2 & Yak-4s were reliably bombing berlin in '41.
so what if the soviets scrapped their GPW planes when they had better A/C to fly?
PBY was a good plane for long range oceanic recon & submarine vulching (which seems to have been the main soviet use of it).  with a brave crew it was a good night attack plane also.  it wasn't a good plane for WWII style bombing, tactical or strategic (this explains all the B-17s & B-24s the USAAF used). the soviets barely had 200 of them.
i still question your knowledge of \/. \/. S. bomber A/C

¦¬ž

[hyena426]

early?,,p`8?,,it didnt have a reliable motor in it till 1943 pretty much,half of them had to have there motors replaced over many times,,and russians had 200 pby's ,,about twice as many as there own bomber the p-8<~~which was a problem child for many years


but plain and simple russian didnt have many good bombers and most were plagued with horrible undependable motors and terrible range

[hyena426]

im not saying p-8 wasnt a bad bomber,,like a he177 the preformance charts look great till you read the troubles they had,,and why they didnt make very many,, it was a problem child compared to the old reliable and still used pby

if i was you,,i would of used the p-2 instead <~did alot more than p-8 did,,just didnt have the long range,,, and didnt have all the problems ,and about the best plane they made,,but it was outdated and out of the game by 1945<~~unlike pby still being used today in some counties and fight fires in usa<~~which is amazing for a plane built in 1935 dont you think? most of the reason they were used for bombing subs and ships,,because of there high range and water landings<~`you saying bombing ships wasnt importaint to the russians?

i question your knowledge \/. \/. S. bomber A/C whgates<~~because p-8 bad example ,,it was used in small numbers and didnt make much of a impact on ww2

it is perhaps surprising that the Pe-8 was the only aircraft of its type to see Soviet service during WW2 and then only in small numbers<~~doesnt sound like it was importaint:)

im not here to argu about bombers anymore,,lol<~~i can bring up data all day long that says the pby was more improtaint than the p-8,,and im sure you can bring some stuff up too,,so much info you can get lost,,its easy too,,but from what i read,,pby was twice as importaint as the p-8

how many catalinas bombed berlin

how many pe-8 bombed anything?,hehe,,they were hardly used and didnt make much of a impact on the war

like i said before,,the pby for reliability,,range and bomb load ,,it was one of the best bombers the russians had:)

[Imp]

Originally posted by hyena426
it is perhaps surprising that the Pe-8 was the only aircraft of its type to see Soviet service during WW2 and then only in small numbers<~~doesnt sound like it was importaint:)

The reason why Russia didnt produce many Pe8 is because of its military doctrine Hyena426 not because its was not reliable enough. Russia military doctrine for the VVS was centered on battlefield support (Il2).

And you forgot about the Tu2 wich was about as good as any Twin the US produced during WW2.

The Pe2 was an attack plane, designed as a dive bomber (the dive brake got stuck after use so they removed them.)

The Pe8 once carried molotoc on a 13000km trip. It could carry 4000KG bombload. It had good performances.
Although early versions used primitive powerplants with an engine in the fuselage used for high alt (supercharger or something like that).

[Squire]

I for one am eternally gratefull to HTC for seeing past the 1944-5 dweeb rides. Without the earlier a/c there would be no scenarios or events worth attending at all.

He-111? sure, not right away, but down the road yes. Its too important a LW a/c to not eventually have. For some of us thats still important.

Later.

[Naso]

Originally posted by hyena426
the he111 late model had 7.9mm guns and a 20mm,,and 4,100lb in bomb load<~~italy does need a bomer,,and thats the best bomber they ever had

Boy, it's really difficult to understand your writings, but I need to point you that Italy did'nt produced the He111, it was produced by the Heinkel, a German factory.

Italy had a good medium bomber, the SM 79 (Savoia Marchetti), that deserve to be modeled as Italian plane, or the low produced Piaggio p-108, almost like a B17 (but in Italian style, so better ), more suited for the Main Arena.

And must not be forgot the Cant Z.1007. (Yes Brady )

I repeat again:

He-111 it is NOT an Italian bomber.

[hyena426]

taly had a good medium bomber, the SM 79 (Savoia Marchetti), that deserve to be modeled as Italian plane, or the low produced Piaggio p-108, almost like a B17 (but in Italian style, so better  ), more suited for the Main Arena.

<~it was not better than a he111,,,,its barely faster than a he111,,it only carries half of the bomb load,,and wasnt produced in the numbers that the he111 was<~~how can you have b.o.b with out this plane?,,,thats like not having butter on your toast,lol

it was produced by the Heinkel, a German factory.

well,,your wrong , Ernst Heinkel AG; also built in France on German account by SNCASO; built under licence by Fabrica de Avione SET, Romania, and CASA, Spain<~~look how many countries produced the he111,,just like pby for allies,,it was made and used by about all the german allies,,spainish needs a bomber too:P

China, Germany (Luftwaffe, Lufthansa),italy, Hungary, Iraq, Romania, Spain, Turkey

and used way more than the sm-79 and produced in 4 times the numbers<~~why is the sm-79 more suited for main?,,it wasnt as tuff as the he111 ,,it wasnt used as much as the he111,,and the bomb load in the early version and late one's were only half of what a he111 could carry,,allmost 8,000lb he111 could carry by late war<~~more than a b17 does here now,,and i would like to see that sm-79 even think about carring that many bombs,,it would break in half:)

[hyena426]

He-111? sure, not right away, but down the road yes

<~~very well put:) to not have this plane in a ww2 sim is just wrong,,,there crews liked them,,they were tuff,,and well used,,,only reason in b.o.b that they were chewed up,,was because of lack of fighter cover,,,,look at what happend to usa and england's bombing raids ,,when they didnt have air cover they were slaughtered just like the he111 over england

there is not one reason,,not one!! why the he111 shouldnt be in a ww2 sim,,very importaint plane and used just as much or more than most bombers

but in time,,i hope it makes it,,i dont think ill throw my self off a cliff if it dont show up,,but im tired of hearing people say it wasnt importaint and didnt make a impact,,it did,,it was a good plane like it or not:)

[whgates3]

Originally posted by hyena426
[B...he111 could carry,,allmost 8,000lb he111 could carry by late war<~~more than a b17 does here now,,...[/B]

7150 lbs is not almost 8000 lbs, it is slightly over 7000 lbs„„„& that was only w/ RATO & low fuel load———apply that standard to the B-17G & it can carry over 20000 lbs•••SM79 is not the only italian medium bomber«««SM84 could carry nearly 9000 lbs & had nearly twice the range of the He111

¶^‡

[hyena426]

Function: bomber / torpedo bomber
Year: 1941 Crew: 5 Engines: 3 * 1000hp Piaggio P.XI RC 40
Wing Span: 21.13m Length: 17.93m Height: 4.59m Wing Area: 61m2
Empty Weight: 8846kg Max.Weight: 13288kg
Speed: 432km/h Ceiling: 7900m Range: 1830km
Armament: 4*mg12.7mm 2000kg

every were i look,,i dont see any 9000lb bomber load,,only about 4,000,,,you looking at a future version? and only 309 were built

Its combat use was not very successful, because it was unstable and had unreliable engines. <~~there we go again,,thats one of the reasons alot of some bombers were built,,because of reliabilty,, no pilot wants to fly a unsafe and unproven plane,,even in the time of war,,lol<~~besides chuck yeger or someone,,lol

its hard to beat the old war horse somtimes ,,because they had time to hammer out all the problems<~~i shouldnt have to argu why this plane should be here,,it speaks for its self,, i think you pull of some very good info whgates,,,but its hard to deny that the he111 was very importaint to the axis,,was tuff and very reliable <~~one of the best traits for a bomber its only down fal,,but like most bombers,,was it was slow,,but from what i read,,it was tuff as nails:)

[whgates3]

my mistake«×»i meant SM-82

[hyena426]

bomber with a maximum bombload of up to 8,818 Ibs (4000 kg), the S.M.82 saw very limited use in this role<~~guess it was used more for dropping troops and cargo

but it was slow<~~he111 maximum speed (H-3) 415km/h emty

sm-82 Maximum speed 230 mph (370 km/h); emty ,,about 400 made,, defenatly a big hauler,,but from what i read,,good plane,,just underpowerd

7150 lbs is not almost 8000 lbs, it is slightly over 7000 lbs

<~~~but if you look,,the he111 h3,,carried 2000kg in belly,,and 2000kg on wings,,thats alot more than 7,000lb,,thats the same bomb load as the sm.82 but with a little more speed

sm.82 did have good range,,but not twice the range,,1800km compared too 1200km<~~the better motors in the he111 must make up for the gas diffrence,,and the sm.82 lot bigger plane in size,,big gas tanks im sure,,must be why it weighs more than a he111 when loaded
gas is heavy

[TWOLF]

Well,  I think we can all agree that the plane sets that exist are pretty sweet.  The one thing I think are lacking, but do not really see a problem in terms of balance are for large strat bombers for the Axis. There are none as yet. Which fits, sinse there were very very few and rarlely used in the War.

  In a dream state I would love to see the anti-buff versions of the Ju88 for tac missions, or possibly the B25J (ground attack varient) but I think for the most part the plane sets are pretty good where they are until the ground game can be exponded on a little.  I understand the Name of the game is Aceshigh, and that this a flying game.  But the door has been breached with the Tiger, and a pretty good job to boot.  Let's have some fun with it.  From the game aspect I think it is a major improvement, and from a flyer's point of veiw, I think it makes the game far more interesting.  The sea game could also use a little improvment.  But hey,  you guys at HT are doing a fine job with a little money.  IMHO, this is the best sim out there online.  Keep up the Great work.