Author Topic: Christians, doesn't it annoy you... (Read 3738 times)

ra · « **Reply #45 on:** December 31, 2002, 07:42:32 AM »

<<<"Weak atheism" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong atheism" is an explicitly held belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists". There is a qualitative difference in the "strong" and "weak" positions; it's not just a matter of degree." >>>

weak = disbelief in the existence of God
strong = believing that God does not exist

Now it is all clear.

SirLoin · « **Reply #46 on:** December 31, 2002, 07:48:09 AM »

BTW..which "God" are we talking about?

AKIron · « **Reply #47 on:** January 01, 2003, 11:12:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
I tell you what I will never understand... it's people who are supposedly offended by people wanting to discuss religion starting conversation after conversation about religion, then blaming it on the religious.

I bet you do know the answer, they simply want to be persuaded that there is a god.

Kieran · « **Reply #48 on:** January 01, 2003, 12:51:01 PM »

I've answered it already as far as I can tell. Praise the Lord in all things, good and bad. A few others have said as much. What other answer can we possibly give you?

No, it honestly does not bother me in the least, because I believe I am incapable of handling this world on my own. I know my successes are His, and my trials are exactly that. I am not resentful of God for that in any way- in fact, I can be thankful for the trials in my life, because I can see how they improved me.

SaburoS · « **Reply #49 on:** January 01, 2003, 01:32:41 PM »

Ultimately it comes down to respecting others in allowing them to believe what they do (as long as they're not a threat to anyone).
My wife is Catholic. I am an Atheist. I don't try to convert her or anyone else to Atheism. She doesn't try to convert me to her faith either. We are both right in our beliefs.
I look at religion this way. It allows some people that are in hopeless and/or disastrous situations a glimmer of hope.
It is kind of silly to try to force others to convert to our own beliefs, no?

DragonDog · « **Reply #50 on:** January 01, 2003, 09:56:09 PM »

---------------
It's a waste of time trying to convert anyone one way or the other. I don't waste my time telling christians that there is no god. I just wish that they would give me the same courtesy.
----------------

Dear Cristians,

I totally agree with this statement. Stop knocking on my door, handing me leaflets, asking me if I've been "saved", trying to tamper with my government, my schools, and my life. I'm just fine without religion.

Having served my 20 years defending the constitution I also believe you have a right to your religion, but lets be clear here, it's YOUR religion. Stop trying to convert me.

Kieran · « **Reply #51 on:** January 02, 2003, 07:19:45 AM »

You realize this thread, and many more like it, have been brought to you by the nonbelievers, right? This was kind of my point for my question...

StSanta · « **Reply #52 on:** January 02, 2003, 09:05:28 AM »

Thanks for your answer Kieran. Ill ignore all the other stuff and ask you to elaborate, if you can.

From a Christian point of view, God gave us free will. Some Christians believe that God never intervenes in our lives, I don't know if you're one of them.

Anyway, with this free will, we can achieve things. So perhaps it is prudent to thank God for being alive, but I don't think it's just pride talking when one wants to get credit for what one has done with ones God given free will?

What do you do when you've accomplished something? Do you think that it's not you, but God, you but with the spiritual help of God or simply you xercising your God given free will in a manner that has a positive result from you?

I'll apologize for getting sidetracked, but I hope I can convince you that my intent was not to bash Christians - rather I'm a bit dumbfounded by this lack of will to take credit for own achievements.

Thanks in advance.

AKIron · « **Reply #53 on:** January 02, 2003, 09:45:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by StSanta
Thanks for your answer Kieran. Ill ignore all the other stuff and ask you to elaborate, if you can.

From a Christian point of view, God gave us free will. Some Christians believe that God never intervenes in our lives, I don't know if you're one of them.

Anyway, with this free will, we can achieve things. So perhaps it is prudent to thank God for being alive, but I don't think it's just pride talking when one wants to get credit for what one has done with ones God given free will?

What do you do when you've accomplished something? Do you think that it's not you, but God, you but with the spiritual help of God or simply you xercising your God given free will in a manner that has a positive result from you?

I'll apologize for getting sidetracked, but I hope I can convince you that my intent was not to bash Christians - rather I'm a bit dumbfounded by this lack of will to take credit for own achievements.

Thanks in advance.

Although you asked Kieran I'll offer my opinion.

Basically it goes like this. God created time/space and everything in it. Life on this planet is short but not all there is. Actually, it's only a tiny part of our existence. To go through life with a positive attitude, thankful for all things is to recognize God's goodness and his presence in all things. This not only makes us happier in this life but prepares us to enjoy what comes after.

If you go through life disbelieving and/or resentful towards God then you may not enjoy spending time with him after.

Sounds simple but harder to put into practice.

Kieran · « **Reply #54 on:** January 02, 2003, 09:59:41 AM »

Baron SS

You and I have always been civil, so understand I don't really think you meant anything untoward in the initial question.

What should I do when I accomplish something? I should pause and reflect on how God made it possible. Unfortunately I am human and will often not do this.

In Esther, Mordecai warns "Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?" (Esther 4:13)

This would suggest God gives us the tools we need and puts us where we need to be in the right time. Esther had reached the pinnacle of what a woman in her society could hope to attain- she was the wife of the king. She could have stayed there and gloated on her good fortune, and applauded herself for her initiative, good looks, personable nature, to get there. She could have ignored the plight of her people. Instead she recognized it was God that had placed her there, and she was put there not for her own glory but to help her people. And, by placing her own life in peril, she attained more glory than she could have ever hoped being merely the wife of a king.

The point is, God gives us what we need, and does so with purpose. If we have gifts, we are to use them in his service. We are to also recognize He gave us the gifts, and not glory in ourselves. Focusing on ourselves leads us away from why we have the gifts to begin with. You undoubtedly are familiar with the parable of the talents?

StSanta · « **Reply #55 on:** January 02, 2003, 10:45:07 AM »

Good answers Kieran and AKIron. Appreciate it.

Sounds like hard work though. Using ones taletns for that God guy. Does that mean you get sort of a bad conscience when you do something with your talents not for yGod, but purely outta self interest?

Hope not. Sounds too Catholic too me (what's with all the guilt trips there, eh?)

oooh, while I am at it Kieran. I routinely get visits from Jehovas Witnesses. Needless to say, I open the door wide for them and then we have 'discussions'. My goal is to see whether their commitment to God is so great they can overcome this troublesome non believer. So far, they're sticking to it but they've gone from one person to two, three and last time 4

.

Anyway, they claimed Jesus wasn't crucified. Rather he was put on a pole. A metal spike was driven into his wrists with his hands forming an skewed x, with the center being at the wrists. They claim their translation of the bible comes directly from the Greek texts and that the word isn't cross but pole. Any comments?

They also have this notion that God doesn't interfere with humans as we go about our business - judgement for what we do will come later. SO there ain't no miracles, what they do is their own doing, no help from God etc. Comments?

Rude · « **Reply #56 on:** January 02, 2003, 10:57:03 AM »

Maybe the reason many of you don't understand the christian faith, is that everything that means anything to you evolves around this world and your life in it.

Is it possible that there is more than what your eyes can see or what you can touch? God promised us all hardship and tribulation in our lives...there are no exceptions. The reward for fighting the good fight is eternal life with God. The bonus is a rich and full life here on this earth as well...one where Gods Holy Spirit dwells in the hearts of believers so to help us through those tough and unfair times we all experience to one degree or another.

It is my sincere hope that those of you who have hardened your hearts towards God might come to see his love and mercy in your lives...I leave you with the following.....

"My son, if thou wilt recieve my words, and hide my commandments with thee; so that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver and searchest for her as hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God."

and....

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: Fear the Lord and depart from evil."

Arfann · « **Reply #57 on:** January 02, 2003, 10:57:38 AM »

It's obvious why God allows war, pestilence, famine, and teen-age loose women to exist. After all the football this week it's plain to see God has been too busy helping folks make touchdowns. You'll see the players thanking God in the middle of their ego-centric celebrations.

Kieran · « **Reply #58 on:** January 02, 2003, 11:28:06 AM »

The easy answer would be to say that if you are of the mind and heart to serve God, using your talents to serve God would be enjoyable and therefore self-serving in the earthly pleasure sense. It is inherently in your self-interest to use your talents to serve God.

I must say, I am not Catholic. Not a knock on Catholics, I really don't know enough to comment. Same for the Jehova's Witnesses. I respect both religions for what they have done, and their followers have shown as much faith as any religion.

Yes, I believe Jesus was crucified as I understand it (traditional cross). Common sense tells me that if this was not so it would have been corrected by various sources before now. There is ample historical evidence to clarify this point, at any rate.

Be careful how you interpret what they are saying... God doesn't have to intervene, because he has already set the plan in motion. Intervening would suggest He changed His mind- which He doesn't do. His end of it is complete. We don't have the blueprint, so we have to believe in Him to get us through it all. We have to search for His purpose for us, and try to understand what our talents are for.

As to judgement... there are levels of judgement. There is earthly, temporal judgement, such as when Israel was judged and found lacking. This resulted in the exile. There is also the final judgement, when each individual is given a final reckoning for their sins.

Arfann · « **Reply #59 on:** January 02, 2003, 01:11:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
Be careful how you interpret what they are saying... God doesn't have to intervene, because he has already set the plan in motion. Intervening would suggest He changed His mind- which He doesn't do. His end of it is complete. We don't have the blueprint, so we have to believe in Him to get us through it all. We have to search for His purpose for us, and try to understand what our talents are for.

Ah, the old pre-destiny thing. So I guess it don't matter what I do, since it ain't gonna change a thing? Including, I assume, giving lip service to religion? Sure glad I don't waste a lot of time praying.