Author Topic: racial profiling  (Read 1851 times)

Offline 2Slow

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racial profiling
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2003, 01:01:05 PM »
"Warrented or not, it might not be the best system for actually stopping them. Do you want to stop them or make muslims feel oppressed for revenge's sake?"

I don't care if we hurt their feelings.  I will be concerned with their feelings when one of them parks a Tank in my driveway.  Until then, screw em.
2Slow
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TANSTAAFL

Offline Ripsnort

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racial profiling
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2003, 01:01:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Sounds like the terrorists have almost won the war.


:(


Close, a couple more perposterous statements from the left like the one Sen.Patty Murray recently said....and its set--match.

Offline Gunthr

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racial profiling
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2003, 01:17:20 PM »
Thrawn, in answer your question - the students who wrote the paper set out to try to prove mathematically how that particular profiling system is easily defeated. (I suspect that they began with a bias against profiling to begin with - but that is beside the point).

Their theory makes a kind of sense on paper, but it does not take into account real life variables or human psychology or the fact that profiling is a fluid process. In fact, the students who wrote the paper assume that the system is static. Additionally the paper assumes that if some part of the system is exploitable, or if the system fails to identify an individual terrorist, the system is not effective.

That is not true. Profiling is only a part of the security system. There are also x-rays, dogs, manual searches, explosive sniffers, interrogation, etc. If your profiling is no longer effective, you change or update your parameters with incoming intelligence. Furthermore, random searches are always included.


Terrorism is a very, very, very effective way to use resources, especially if the operators are willing to die. There is very little you can do to stop it unless you want to lock down everything, as El-Al does. Its a balance between freedom and security.

Just my .02.    Miko knows what I'm talking about.

The fact is, profiling is going to occur no matter what any of us think about it. PC people may force a different name to it, but profiling will always be put to use.

Maybe this is a semantics problem?
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline rc51

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racial profiling
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2003, 01:18:12 PM »
America was built on judism and christianity!!!
In my opinion if you aint one of the above then get out!!!!!!!
TEXAS justice when it bows to meca kick it square in the ass!!!

Offline SaburoS

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racial profiling
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2003, 01:20:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
It has been proven that racial profiling is a faulty system for security as it leaves gaps that can be exploited.  Random searches are more effective.

Basically, you have terrorist observe the system.  Terrorists see that the system is racially profiling.  Terrorists use a guy that looks western, system is defeated, people die.


No kidding. Wasn't the bomb that destroyed the PanAm flight that blew up over Scotland carried on by a white woman (who was manipulated by her boyfriend)?

Racial profiling would be useless in another similar case.
How many Hindus and Sikhs are going to have to be searched and detained because they were mistaken for arabs? How many "Muslim, extremist, terrorist" will be let go because they don't fit the profile (could be asian or caucasian looking)? Keep in mind that none of the "muslim extremist terrorists" wear turbans. (As Thrawn pointed out.)

Even if the US did not increase security at the airports since 9/11, what are the odds of another terrorist attack being successful using utility knives and fake bombs by any terrorist group?
Zero. I wouldn't know of any flight where the passengers wouldn't revolt and keep it from happening again. Chances are the passengers would kill the terrorists on the spot.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Thrawn

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racial profiling
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2003, 01:21:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
I was never arguing in favor of any algorithm, however successfull at the moment - just that "preferential" (not exclosive) treatment of certain identifiable categories of people is justified and does not violate civil rights.

 miko


Heheh, for the most part, I'm not questioning the civil rights issues.

I think, we're pretty much in agreement when it comes to effective methods of actually stopping the terrorists.

If the FAA and any consultants can devise a algorithm, which is better then randomnessat detecting the message (terrorist) from the noise (other passengers), and it is complex enough that there is a next to nil chance of Al-Quaeda detecting it and decoding it, then exploiting it, before the algorithm is changed.  Then I would agree that it would be better then relying on randomness.

I certainly don't think that racial profiling alone would meet these requirements.


2Slow,

""Warrented or not, it might not be the best system for actually stopping them. Do you want to stop them or make muslims feel oppressed for revenge's sake?"

I don't care if we hurt their feelings. I will be concerned with their feelings when one of them parks a Tank in my driveway. Until then, screw em."

I was saying "hurting their feelings" for no appreciable benefit was wrong.

Offline weazel

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Not to excuse the islamic nut-jobs, but....
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2003, 01:25:25 PM »
Please explain to us all how 3 of the reportedly Islamic hijackers in the 9/11 attack have been found alive in their home countries?

Chimpy and his thugs are lying to us about a LOT of things.

Offline TWOLF

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Miko
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2003, 01:27:00 PM »
Great Posts Miko.  Thank you.

Offline Thrawn

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Re: Not to excuse the islamic nut-jobs, but....
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2003, 01:29:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
Please explain to us all how 3 of the reportedly Islamic hijackers in the 9/11 attack have been found alive in their home countries?


Got a linK.

Offline rc51

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racial profiling
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2003, 01:32:19 PM »
who really knows the truth??

Offline weazel

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Sure
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2003, 01:35:52 PM »

Offline Thrawn

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racial profiling
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2003, 01:41:41 PM »
Jeebus.  Thanks for the link.

Offline rc51

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racial profiling
« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2003, 01:44:08 PM »
so what these three stooges missed there planes LOL

Offline SaburoS

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racial profiling
« Reply #73 on: January 06, 2003, 01:46:02 PM »
Hmmm very interesting. Great intelligence services we have if that story is true :rolleyes:
Thnx for the link weazel.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline SaburoS

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racial profiling
« Reply #74 on: January 06, 2003, 01:49:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Yeah, and imagine the Doctors that have killed many more than handguns!:eek: :p


Rip,
Where do the deaths in the US from "Muslim male extremists" fall in your chart?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell