email at work.. dumbprettythang

[Wlfgng]

put it this way:

if you were the boss (your money, company, equip, etc)
would you be happy paying someone to do this on YOUR equipment and on YOUR time ?

[Staga]

Nope but that doesn't give me any rights to open my workers emails, letters or listen his calls.

I could, of course, turn to the police and ask court order to check his/hers emails if there's a chance that person is transferring company secrets or otherwise trying to dig the ground under the company.
I don't think personal emails fit in that category.

[Staga]

btw Wlfgng have you ever used other computers than your own to surf in the net, maybe in this very same UBB HTC is hosting?

[Kanth]

SOB look at my quote.

I was being very specific.

basically saying, Private enterprise has private email.

I only address the 'elected public official' part at the bottom.

Originally posted by SOB
Kanth - He works for a government agency.  All of the property of that government agency, including the emails, IS public property.  That's why the media was allowed access to it.


SOB

in other words, I understand that, I was pointing out a very particular statement that made it sound as if all email is public.

[Vulcan]

What makes you think all email isn't public

Email is the equivilent of mailing letters without envelopes!

Originally posted by Kanth
in other words, I understand that, I was pointing out a very particular statement that made it sound as if all email is public.

[Kanth]

closed systems and encryption makes me think so.

Originally posted by Vulcan
What makes you think all email isn't public

Email is the equivilent of mailing letters without envelopes!

[Vulcan]

Closed systems? eheheheheheheheh.

And PGP got broken recently didn't it?

Originally posted by Kanth
closed systems and encryption makes me think so.

[Kanth]

Yep, closed systems.

I dunno about pgp being broken can you link me?


Also in this thread we are talking about lawfully public and not theftably public. But I understand you are going off on purpose to make a point about security in general.

Originally posted by Vulcan
Closed systems? eheheheheheheheh.

And PGP got broken recently didn't it?

[Kieran]

In my state it is illegal to use the equipment for private use (AFAIK). Don't be angry with the judge, if it comes before him, he has to act according to the law.

[Puke]

Hortlund,  I don't see why you are so incensed.  It's public property and he's on public time.  Same with companies.  The company owns the computer and pays for the Internet access...it's theirs!  The employee just gets to use it but has no ownership of the material.

Come over to my house and use my computer to send out personal items and try to tell me I can't make it public.

[Karnak]

The gist I'm getting from the Euros is that they think employers should fire / disipline their employees based on their productivity, not by snooping and eavesdropping.

If an employee is screwing around on company time it will show up in his/her productivity, or lack thereof as the case may be.  If they can turn in the required/expected productivity while screwing around a little bit, who is it hurting?  Obviously they stand a better chance of promotion/raises if they used the time they are screwing around in to be even more productive and beat their employer's expectations, but as long as they meet expectations why care.

In my personal experience a distrustful employer hurts employee loyalty and morale, regardless of whether they are loafers.


In the USA we very heavily weight all these kinds of things towards the employer's best interest, in Europe (generally speaking) it sounds like they are either more balanced or weight things towards the employee's benefit.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Puke
Hortlund,  I don't see why you are so incensed.  It's public property and he's on public time.  Same with companies.  The company owns the computer and pays for the Internet access...it's theirs!  The employee just gets to use it but has no ownership of the material.

Come over to my house and use my computer to send out personal items and try to tell me I can't make it public.

I honestly do not understand this point of view.

If I use a piece of paper and a pen from work, and write a private letter, using the company pen and paper, does that make the letter the property of the company? OF COURCE NOT. Not even if I take an envelope and a stamp too from the company and mail it by giving it to the company mailman.

Same thing with your house and your computer. Are you honestly saying that if I borrow pen and paper from you to write a letter (or a novel), that letter or novel becomes your property? I DONT THINK SO.

What complicates things for you americans are the contracts signed when you become an employee, but the basic principle is very simple.

Geez what happened to the "land of the free",and the "rights of the individual."

Hello 1984.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Hortlund
I honestly do not understand this point of view.

If I use a piece of paper and a pen from work, and write a private letter, using the company pen and paper, does that make the letter the property of the company? OF COURCE NOT. Not even if I take an envelope and a stamp too from the company and mail it by giving it to the company mailman.

Same thing with your house and your computer. Are you honestly saying that if I borrow pen and paper from you to write a letter (or a novel), that letter or novel becomes your property? I DONT THINK SO.

What complicates things for you americans are the contracts signed when you become an employee, but the basic principle is very simple.

Geez what happened to the "land of the free",and the "rights of the individual."

Hello 1984.

Hortland,

In the United States it would mean those things.  Companies regularly have new hires sign agreements that state anything the employee thinks of or creates (new software algorithims, new products, new business proccesses, ect) while at work are all the property of the company.

For example, if an employee has a side business and during the work day they have a sudden brainstorm regarding their side business, those ideas belong to the company.

Using the company's equipment, even mere office supplies, for personal business is theft.

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Hortlund
I honestly do not understand this point of view.

If I use a piece of paper and a pen from work, and write a private letter, using the company pen and paper, does that make the letter the property of the company? OF COURCE NOT. Not even if I take an envelope and a stamp too from the company and mail it by giving it to the company mailman.

Same thing with your house and your computer. Are you honestly saying that if I borrow pen and paper from you to write a letter (or a novel), that letter or novel becomes your property? I DONT THINK SO.

What complicates things for you americans are the contracts signed when you become an employee, but the basic principle is very simple.

Geez what happened to the "land of the free",and the "rights of the individual."

Hello 1984.

If you are an elected official and you send something on official letterhead, you've just represented yourself as an elected official and that document is public property as a result.  The things written on that document can be held against you, and it can be used in a trial.

It has nothing to do with 1984.

BTW, most of this stuff comes around as a result of something else.  Work is suffering so the "why?" questions start.  People don't really dig until after someone has been suspended.  People are usually fired for porn after someone sees they are looking for it, then it is found on their computer.  Someone is usually fired for "e-mails" because someone else shows them around... then the rest of them are found.

Obviously, the gentleman had been writing the e-mails for some time... it wasn't until there was a problem that they were discovered.

AKDejaVu

[Wlfgng]

Hort.. would you, as an employer, pay your employees to do this kind of thing at work instead of getting their jobs done?
And you'd be happy about it?