Capitalism is a pain in the arse

[Mirge]

i have to agree current capitalism isnt really capitalism.. i guess it depends on your definition of it. Still alot more ppl benefit from this system(small business, entrprenuers) than any other and some take advantage mainly BIG business's but their just a small% that make the news and that paper you read hehe
....yep some amaz'n stories in the paper how bout that one about 4 terrorists that slipped into US across the canadian border later found out it was just hogwash, that would suck to be one of those guys lol.. still the paper is better than the news on tv but then again that also depends on the paper and the news channel but in general id like to think the paper is a better way to get honest news than the tv. ehh just make up a story about something outragious and they'll print it.. bigfoot, lockness, those guys that believe in ufo's that claim to have cloned a human, war on...(fill in the blank) second hand smoke kills, deathrow inmate found inicint after 15 yrs in jail, drugs are bad but not the ones in pharmacy's, the ozone is melting ahhhhh!!!  
some are true, some arnt, some obvious and some with a twist with many other possabilities. its proven to be what the majority wants to read/hear. btw whats better than capitalism, aint it about time someone come up with a new ism to dethrone the big Cap that had so much potential but grew into an evil opressive monster mocking the commie bastards or is society too far down the road to go back to a new beginning. ill let ya sort out the bs my editor isnt here

[Dowding]

I perfer it to communism.

I don't think you'll find anybody saying otherwise - but capitalism is not some pinacle of human social achievement like some people make it out to be. It is still too divisive, still too wasteful.

There has to be a better way. Forget about working out how to get nuclear fusion functional, someone devise a better system of doing things.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by texace
The way I see it...capitalism is a load of crap. Look at it this way: A man can work his whole life for little pay, just to get by, while some other guy can sit on his butt and get money for free. Even though the first man contributed more to the economy and gov't, the second man is considered better because he has more money.

I hate that logic...I hate the fact rich people can get money for nothing and contribute very little, someone like me can work his arse off and get nowhere in the socail ladder. Do I want the same pay they get? No...what I want if for them to work for thier money. Earn that money like the rest of us. You ain't special cause you got more money that I do...

BTW...there's nothing wrong with communists...

How does somebody get money for free in capitalism???

What you described is communism where hard working and intelligent people are abused to support lazy and ignorant types who in fact get money for free in a communist system for doing nothing and contributing nothing.

Saying there is nothing wrong with communists is like saying there is nothing wrong with Nazis.  You are incredibly ignorant texace, please please take some 20th century history classes and
also some economics.

[Toad]

Is this the real Grun?

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

Not really. The BBS type things and the internet in general are becoming just another forum for people to communicate and interact and be "with" other people. Its now no diffrent than talking to friends on the phone or writing letters to family or incresingly just hanging out with your internet buddies so to speak. Now of course there is a difference that people bring up, if you dont like it just go to next wepbage or leave alltogether but so can you do in real life, at the expense of giving up participation in that community. [/color=red]However doing that largely acts to condone the abusive behavior because its seen as an effective arguing tacitc, it ridicules people till they give in, give up or get out - and thats bad. You miss the point it's not about the game its about people.[/color][/B]

Or (9 days later) is this the real Grun?

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ 01-02-2003 05:10 PM
WOW I did not see this first time through Blitz:

"They were good people, tryin to make the world better just like many others, Che Guevarra', 'Fidel Castro' etc, etc. "

diddly You squeak, go to hell you whoopeeed communist. Fools like you are responsible for all the hundred and more million people murdered by these degenerate power hungry savages.[/u]

Unbelivable!!!!

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Dowding
I don't think you'll find anybody saying otherwise - but capitalism is not some pinacle of human social achievement like some people make it out to be. It is still too divisive, still too wasteful.

There has to be a better way. Forget about working out how to get nuclear fusion functional, someone devise a better system of doing things.

<leans over and takes a bite of chaw... "ain't nobody never found nuthin' better yet..." <spits a long brown stream into spitoon... "now as for Fusion, my cousin Jethro has a magnetic torus in the coop which shows some promise.."

[GRUNHERZ]

Both Toad....  I really would like for us all to try and argue resonably.

But I really really hate communism, perhaps the only thing I truly hate in this world. I know it's somewhat irrational but thats how I feel.   Moreover I have had plenty of intellectual arguments with them in real life and I have just given up on trying to help them - it's an incurable disease, they simply will never understand economics or human nature.

Its a contradiction for sure, but I'm human.

[Ike 2K#]

Originally posted by blitz
........Capitalism will destroy democracy, in fact, big companies dictates politicions already what to do.
Regards Blitz

is there a way to mix democracy with socialism?

[Hangtime]

Of course, the Marxian definition of value is ridiculous. All the work one cares to add willl not turn a mud pie into an apple tart; it remains a mud pie, value zero. By corollary, unskillful work can easily subtract value; an untalented cook can turn wholesome dough and fresh green apples, valuable already, into an inedible mess, value zero. Conversely, a great chef can fashion of those same materials a confection of greater value than a commonplace apple tart, with no more effort than an ordinary cook uses to prepare an ordinary sweet. These kitchen illustrations demolish the Marxian theory of value - the fallacy from which the entire magnificent fraud of communism derives - and to illustrate the truth of the common-sense defintion as measured in terms of use. R.A.H.

 
Capitalism may not be the best system.. but it's the best we got.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Ike 2K#
is there a way to mix democracy with socialism?

You pay Social Secuirity taxes don't you Ike?

From each according to his work, to each according to his need? Isn't that SS?  and in the same society as Microsoft, Enron, and Exxon...

[Toad]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But I really really hate communism, perhaps the only thing I truly hate in this world. I know it's somewhat irrational but thats how I feel.   Moreover I have had plenty of intellectual arguments with them in real life and I have just given up on trying to help them - it's an incurable disease, they simply will never understand economics or human nature.

Its a contradiction for sure, but I'm human.

LOL!

You realize that a lot of people could substitute the "L" word you went on a 7 page rant about in the General Discussion for "communism" in this quote?

What would you say to them?

Can't have it both ways, Grun. Either your a "peace, love and understanding" guy or not.

[GRUNHERZ]

I am very tolerant of most thing and ideas and i'm willing to be peace love and resonable when discussing them. However communism is not one of the things I have that policy with. I can have that hatred all to myself - its my business, its personal.

Toad you are just trying to argue something unrelated because you are pissed off at me or dont like me because of our past arguments. How bout you just stop that and contribute to this disccusion.

[Dowding]

I am very tolerant of most thing and ideas and i'm willing to be peace love and resonable when discussing them.

This has to be the funniest thing I've read all year.

How bout you just stop that and contribute to this disccusion.

Whenever anyone criticizes Bush or his administation, you screech 'Deth to Amreeka' and spiel some unfunny parody.

Asking someone to 'stop that and contribute to the discussion' is pretty ironic, when it's coming from you. I hope you can see that.

[GRUNHERZ]

I have my moments...

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Urchin
Sorry Lazs, I disagree.  Government is nescesary to protect people from other people.  If we had no government regulations, we'd basically be living in one vast free for all.  Could people survive?  Absolutely.  Would life be brutal and short?  Absolutely.

Amen, Urchin. The amazing thing is that you are having to spell this out to a guy some 30 years your senior.  I think you might just be the US equivalent of Dowding.

But...  I think less government is appropriate in the field of welfare/jobs. Better to allow people to earn more money (and to keep more) and decide their own destiny, than having a nanny state. Personally, I think Thatcherism rocks! and Norman Tebbit is one cool dude! Well, it worked for me. A lot of people came unstuck because there were no more cookies in the "jobs for life" cookie jar. People had been raised in a "dependency culture", in which they would automatically be provided for. Unfortunately, when socialism was abolished in Britain in 1979, there were a lot of early casualties caught in the transition.  Now, the diddlying Labour "government" has decided that freelance consultants (as I once was) are "really employees of the client organisations" who we serve. (They conveniently overlook the fact that we have no paid holidays, no sickness benefit, no employee perks, and no pension) So no more being able to claim travelling expenses, hotel expenses against tax. And because of that decree, they make us pay National Insurance on everything. Employee AND Employer. For me, it equated to an overnight tax increase of around 20%. Well diddly that. I retired early. So whereas the Gov. would have made a good wedge from me (40% tax), I'm not going to pay 60% (plus Corporation Tax - forgot to mention that), so now from me they leave... with nothing. (said in Anne Robinson voice)

The whole point of Thatchers brand of capitalism as the antidote to socialism was to create the conditions in which people could flourish under their own steam.  Under the Wilson/Callaghan Labour "government" of the 1970s, people were literally buggering off overseas to escape punitive taxation.

[Toad]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I am very tolerant of most thing and ideas and i'm willing to be peace love and resonable when discussing them. However communism is not one of the things I have that policy with. I can have that hatred all to myself - its my business, its personal.

I'll be saving this one, Grun. The next time you go on a rant about the "luftwhiners" you're going to see it a lot... with only one word changed.  

You do know what they call a guy that says one thing but does another, right?

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Toad you are just trying to argue something unrelated because you are pissed off at me or dont like me because of our past arguments. How bout you just stop that and contribute to this disccusion.

No, I'm not arguing at all. I'm pointing out an obvious inconsistency in your BBS behavior to you. You had a snit fit in the General Discussion Forum over name calling, pleading how "not nice" it is and how damaging it is to the genteel posters.

Yet all along anyone that's read the board has seen you put up plenty of stuff in several different forums just like the vitriolic post above.

As Dowding said, it's pretty ironic and more folks than just Dowding hope you can see that.

I for one hope you can see that.

That's all. Continue.