Author Topic: wtf is wrong with the French?  (Read 3001 times)

Offline Angus

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2003, 06:26:34 AM »
Hortlund: Your TROLL is provokative, RUDE, and although it has its points, its Stupid alltogether.

The French have had their sorry side of warfare, and seem to remember. Sure, they did perhaps not always perform too well, with low sides like the fall of France in WW2, or upright the Stupid opposition to the British in N-Africa in WW2. BTW the Vichy French DID fight .....against the allied.
They had their moments too, - A minor french force drove the Italians back in WW2, and who held the ground at Verdun in WWI at the costs of hundreds of thousands but the French?
War is bad, the French remember it, and you as a soft cushioned Swede should take a deep breath before Speaking like this!

Now turning to the Swedes, one can perhaps learn what can be done with less war and more politics....
What were the Swedes doing in WW2? Gently siding with the Germans to avoid occupation, then slowly shifting to the other side. Not of much use with their neighbours, who fought like devils till they fell, and the remainders who escaped continuing until the end of the war? Of all people, you have no right to to send any pompous and arrogant words to the Norwegians!
Those Norwegians were many fighting against Swedish shipped Steel, and Sweedish guns loaded with Sweadish explosives, using perhaps, Swedish guns themselves in the Progress. Swedish, protecting their pink underbellies, dared not cut the bonds with Germany until right before the end. They let themselves never be persuaded to rally with the Allies, - think for a moment what difference that would have made as early as 1942/43. Hmm. Maybe they were afraid, or not competent in their own defenses?

Oh, and somebody in the thread must have messed up kings. It is the Danish Queens Husbond who is a Frenchman.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Hortlund

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2003, 07:12:47 AM »
Angus... what does the history of Sweden have to do with the current topic?

Honestly, in this thread I've had something like 5 replies all listing the major shortcomings of Swedish warfare/politics. That is all fine and well, BUT SWEDEN IS NOT THE NATION THREATENING TO BLOCK ALL ACTION AGAINST IRAQ IN THE UN.

If you want we can all start a new thread and lable it something like "Why Sweden almost joined the war on the German side in 1941" or "Yes Sweden lost alot of wars during the past 1000 years"...that is all fine by me.

BUT right now France is the problem, not Sweden.

And Angus, the current Swedish king is of French heritage. In 1815, a French General, Bernadotte became king of Sweden.

Offline Angus

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2003, 07:47:10 AM »
Hortlund
For one thing, It's France AND Germany.
For the second, I couldn't resist taking a pot shot at you for relating the political status of the French on this issue to their military performance in other wars long ago.
And finally, isn't that Blix guy a Swede? And btw, how is Swedish public opinion in this topic, and how would it be if they knew they had to send Sweadish troops over there?
Don't throw too much rocks in a glasshouse.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Hortlund

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2003, 07:53:00 AM »
Well, we did send troops to Afghanistan, but I dont think anyone noticed... Public opinion is the same as always. Liberal media and various lefties gnashing thier teeth/wrenching their hands over the threat of war. Average guy on the street thinks it would be a good idea to get rid of Saddam and all other terrorists too for that matter.

Blix is Swedish...point being?

Offline Angus

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2003, 08:26:57 AM »
Well, public opinion is public opinion. Not perfect, it is still the cornerstone of the idea of Democracy.
Now Germany and France seperated themselves from the others in the Iraq issue, thereby also agreeing with the public opinion in the most of Europe, not just their own countries. Maybe I am wrong already, for public opinion can change in a day:D
About Blix. He is the guy who asked for more time. Swedish guy goes along fine with the French there. :D
Now if Blix actually FINDS something, I am sure the French and Germans will immediately saddle on again.
You may think I am one of those "Liberal media and various lefties ", but I'm not. Hehe, hell, I sure know those archetypes though.
Points of mine though:
1.Let Blix finish his job. We should not simply start an invasion like that regardless of his work.
2. Watchit, Iraq will try to stall everything into the worst season to deal with them, - the summer
3. Iraq should pay for shooting down unmanned recce planes. Are they not a part of the surveillance system BTW?

Maybe Saddam should be subjected to a point system (negative perks). Shoot down a recce...2 perks. Refuse admittance, 2 perks. Stalling weapons inspectors, 1 perk. Traces of stuff found, 1 perk.  Blix finds stuff, 100 perks!!!!
Allies move in at 30 perks. Wonder what his status is by now...
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Hortlund

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2003, 08:31:08 AM »
Problem is that the war has to start pretty soon. After April the weather gets too bad in Iraq for any kind of offensive.

The alternative would be to give Saddam and the terrorists another 7-8 months to do whatever they are trying to do

=not good.

Offline CyranoAH

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2003, 08:33:10 AM »
If France's position is for you "spineless cowardice" then here's another coward to add to your list. I couldn't be in better company.

Just for the record, about 96% of spaniards are against the war in Irak if the UN doesn't support it.

Daniel

Offline straffo

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2003, 08:39:34 AM »
Steve I didn't expected someone like you to be that receptive to US propaganda.

In fact I didn't expected to see a European to be so lacking of "esprit critique"

Offline Dowding

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2003, 08:39:53 AM »
Quote
The alternative would be to give Saddam and the terrorists another 7-8 months to do whatever they are trying to do


Even the CIA admits there is no link between Saddam and Al Queda. So who are these 'terrorists' you speak of?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2003, 08:48:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Even the CIA admits there is no link between Saddam and Al Queda. So who are these 'terrorists' you speak of?


Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Aqxcsa Brigades (dont quote me on the spelling though)

And one of the first things you should learn about intelligence operations is that what they know, and what we know is not neccesarily the same thing...and not only that, they want to keep it that way. AND this is good. Because we dont need to know what they know, because when we know, the terrorists know it too.

And Dowding...
There are other ways than the direct contacts you know.

Example #1:
Iraq supports Chechen rebels
Al Queida recruits from Chechen rebels

Example #2:
Iraq supports Hamas
Al Queida recruits from Hamas

Example #3:
Iraq supports Hamas
Hamas cooperates with Egyptian terrorist group (dont remember name)
Egyptian terrorist group cooperates with Al Queida

Lets just acknowledge the fact that the CIA knows a he**ofalot more about these terrorist groups than we do and leave it at that.

Offline Hortlund

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #100 on: January 27, 2003, 08:57:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Steve I didn't expected someone like you to be that receptive to US propaganda.

In fact I didn't expected to see a European to be so lacking of "esprit critique"


ahh yes, espirit critique... but you have to realize straffo, that it is not good to critizise just because you think its chique or whatever. This is a real issue with real dangers. And it is not as if the whole problem will go away if we ignore it for a while.


Straffo, please tell me which of the following is US propaganda.

1) Iraq has used Chemical weapons against civilian Kurds and against Iran.

2) Iraq had alot of Biological and Chemical weapons in 1991. These weapons have not been accounted for by the weapon inspectors.

3) Iraq supports Hamas, Hezbollah and the Al Accsxa Brigades directly.

4) Iraq have been trying to manufacture/get their hands on nuclear weapons since the mid 80:s.

5) Iraq has killed tens of thousands of its own civilians.

6) Iraqi security forces use torture against Iraqi citizens.

7) Since 1991 Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have died because of an embargo that is in place because Saddam refuses to let the UN disarm him.

8) Iraq had repeatedly stated that the state of Israel must be destroyed.

9) Iraq has repeatedly violated previous UN resolutions.

Offline 28sweep

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2003, 08:59:21 AM »
Didn't Libya invade Chad in the 1980's and it was opposed by French Forces.  Like 80,000 Libyans vs 3,000 French and the French spanked the hell out of them...........

Offline straffo

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2003, 09:08:56 AM »
Quote
1) Iraq has used Chemical weapons against civilian Kurds and against Iran.

None was interested before GWB noticed he needed a war like his father

Quote
2) Iraq had alot of Biological and Chemical weapons in 1991. These weapons have not been accounted for by the weapon inspectors.

What about North Korea?

Quote
3) Iraq supports Hamas, Hezbollah and the Al Accsxa Brigades directly.

Sure and Ryad never done anything like that.

Quote
4) Iraq have been trying to manufacture/get their hands on nuclear weapons since the mid 80:s.

They are not alone (hint : North K...)

Quote
5) Iraq has killed tens of thousands of its own civilians.

Neither Kim Il Jung ...

Quote
6) Iraqi security forces use torture against Iraqi citizens.

Kim Il Jung won't ever use this kind of horrible methods .

Quote
7) Since 1991 Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have died because of an embargo that is in place because Saddam refuses to let the UN disarm him.

Will the UN protect Iraq in case of a real disarmement ?
I dont' think so.

Quote
8) Iraq had repeatedly stated that the state of Israel must be destroyed.

Yep and why is it wrong  ?
In fact Iraq is not the only country stating that.

Quote
9) Iraq has repeatedly violated previous UN resolutions.

Israel won't ever do such an illegal act.


I'm not a member of Saddam fan's club but  I find this Double Standard idiot.

Offline Hortlund

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2003, 09:12:16 AM »
Straffo.

So if I understand your post correctly you are saying this:

"Nothing of that is US propaganda, in fact all the points you listed are true. However, some other nations are also evil."

Well then Straffo. I have to ask you. What is the US propaganda that I have fallen for?

Offline Hortlund

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wtf is wrong with the French?
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2003, 09:17:00 AM »
Straffo, I have to return to some of your answers that I find highly questionable.

Riyadh ( =Saudi government) has never directly supported for Hamas, Hezbollah or other terrorist organizations.

The UN disarmament of Iraq is with regards to BC. They can keep their conventional weapons. Now I ask you what the he** do you mean when you say that Iraq will be unprotected without these weapons. Does that mean that you think BC is ok?

Why is it wrong that Iraq wants to destroy Israel? It is wrong because it would mean that millions of jews would be murdered...again. Frankly I thought you would find that at least a bit wrong...apparently not.