Author Topic: Convince Me! (Read 2159 times)

Monk · « **Reply #30 on:** February 15, 2003, 10:19:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by deSelys
Then why don't you let more time to the inspectors. Frankly, will a couple of months make such a difference?

Why, 12 years have not made a difference.

Hortlund · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2003, 10:22:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by deSelys
Then why don't you let more time to the inspectors. Frankly, will a couple of months make such a difference?

Yes, after end of April, the weather makes any war a pretty bad idea. The alternatives is go now or go next year.

*edit
and with the way N Korea is moving right now, waiting a year is really a bad idea...not to mention the costs of having 135 000 men stationed on the borders of Iraq...

Hangtime · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2003, 10:28:45 AM »

Karnak.. thanks for the reasoned reply!

Quote

(CIA says there are no credible links between Saddam and terrorists)

I suppose Powell was just pulling this rabbit outta his ass...

Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialities and one of the specialties of this camp is poisons. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqaqi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.

(Picture of camp shown.)

The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch — image a pinch of salt — less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is fatal.

Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq. But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization, Ansar al-Islam, that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000 this agent offered al Qaeda safe haven in the region. After we swept al Qaeda from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven. They remain there today.

Zarqawi's activities are not confined to this small corner of north east Iraq. He traveled to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, staying in the capital of Iraq for two months while he recuperated to fight another day.

During this stay, nearly two dozen extremists converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there. These Al Qaeda affiliates, based in Baghdad, now coordinate the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for his network, and they've now been operating freely in the capital for more than eight months.

Iraqi officials deny accusations of ties with al Qaeda. These denials are simply not credible. Last year an al Qaeda associate bragged that the situation in Iraq was, quote, "good," that Baghdad could be transited quickly.

So much for 'no ties w/terrorists' argument.

Do we show the world we can declare war on terror, describe the ground rules.. and then forget to prosecute it?

GWB, 20 Sept 2001

Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes visible on TV and covert operations secret even in success.

We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest.

And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.

From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.[/b]

Last time I checked.. this was our Foriegn Policy.. what's changed since 9/11?

The French?

capt. apathy · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2003, 10:39:47 AM »

we've waited this long, why not wait for a declaration of war from congress? we haven't really done so well at war since we stopped getting those. (yes we 'won' the gulf war but now we are having to go back. job not inished?)

it seems to me without a congressional declaration of war our goals are often unclear. this makes the war much harder for the guys doing the fighting and dying.

Bush has been at this gulf build up and preparing for war for quite a while. he never asked congress for a declaration.

yes they would argue it for a while and it could take a bit of time but as I said earlier we've been on this track for awhile. he could have asked for one early on and we would have a decision by now. why doesn't (didn't) he ask?

maybe he doesn't think they will go for it. maybe he doesn't care what the american people think (they are the people we elected to represent us to gov't, right?).

or maybe he want's to get us into this thing and settle it in the best interest of big $ oil. and doesn't want any leagal documents from congress getting in the way of goals of his own.

Tommy · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2003, 10:41:52 AM »

Why does OBL hate the USA?

Because we used arab land to attack Saddam in the first place!!!

All you guys who want the USA to stand down are right, Saddam is no threat to us here. So lets turn back time to the 1940's Hitler is no threat to us so after pearl harbor we only take out the
Jap's. Then sign no agreesion agreement with hitler (which he probably may or not ignore). So where would you all be now. infact 2 times we came over and saved your sorry collective asses. So I agree let us american stay over here and quit feeding the whole damn planet, quit fighting other countries battles.

And besides if we attack Iraq what is everyone else going to do put sanctions on us, whoop de doo force us to close our border were sick and tired of sending our hard earned money out of this country anyway.

So all you foriegnors who hate us remember who saved you from the germans!!! We may not like war either but we would perfer to fight our own not yours!!

Nomde · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2003, 11:05:23 AM »

Gentlemen,
IMHO,
1. I am a citizen of the United States.
2. We have been attacked, and we ARE in a state of war.
3. When they are called, I WILL support my troops.
4. I have a belief that our country's leaders have information that "we the people" don't.
5. France has placed such a strict interpretation on the UN resolutions, that they will never agree to agression.
6. The French ambassador to the UN stated that "the inspectors must state that inspections will never work". This won't happen, politicians never use the word never or any interpretation of it. BTW, tres bien Clintonian backtalking there France, salute.
7. France has a multibillion dollor contract with Iraq and it's not in thier interest to agree to the UN resolutions.

In any case, if Sadam was gone and a democratic institution was placed in Iraq, they may recieve the brunt of the islamic extremist punishment. I believe there would be mutiple arab governments supporting the extremist due to the destabilizing effect of a democratic republic close to thier own soil.
There are a number of factors which are at play here, and no one can predict the outcome other then a great many people will die.

Too many interest and no one wants to loose face, who will be the one to step back first. Forever the caution, the one who steps back first will be overun by the interest's of the others.

AKWeav · « **Reply #36 on:** February 15, 2003, 11:23:49 AM »

Quote:"7. France has a multibillion dollor contract with Iraq and it's not in thier interest to agree to the UN resolutions. "

8. Saddam still owes billions to Russia and China for all the military equipment we blew away the last time.

Small wonder they don't want him (Saddam) taken out.

10Bears · « **Reply #37 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:14:12 PM »

Very well written Karnak.. I agree 100% esp liked the middle paragraph:

Pre-emptive strikes on a nation that does not pose any current risk to our country sets a very dangerous precedent and fundamentally breaks the accepted international standard from the post WWII period. To do this opens up all sorts of possible actions by nations that have thus far been contained by international law. What is to stop a country from attacking a smaller country if all it must do is state that the smaller country will be a real threat to it at some point in the future? The USA has presented no evidence that Iraq has WMD, let alone that Iraq has any intentions to attack the USA. What is the controling factor here? Power? If so, what will we do if 50 years down the line a resurgent Russia or EU decide to do something that is decidedly against our interests? Will their power make it all fine and dandy?

Hortland writes:
Hey retard
As I said, you anti war pukes make me sick

X2Lee writes:
Another farkin idjit.

Hortland you know, or should know that calling people names degenerates your argument. It means you really have no logical bases for debate... Tell me, has calling entire countries names helped or hurt your cause?

One of the problems here is the Bushies don't lie effectivly. All their evidence to date seems to be refuted within minutes of it's release. Even by the CIA! .The smoking gun evidence Powell presented to the security council turns out to be plagerized graduate student papers from 12 years ago... Sheesh if you want to get people on your side you might start by treating them with respect instead of compempt.

deSelys Writes:

Quote

Karnak is spot on IMO.

Hortlund I seriously believe you aren't what you're claiming (a judge). Because:

1 your only occupation seems to be posting on this board all day long
2 you're racist to the bone

I tend to agree with you deSelys, he's made several comments on this board that betray him... "It's up to Iraq to prove their innocents"-- that sort of thing.. stuff no real judge would ever say..

Dowding · « **Reply #38 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:16:37 PM »

Quote

You people make me sick. Seriously, I have no respect whatsoever for you anti war pukes. You are a f*cking disgrace.

Tell that to the ex-Para and veteran of Arnhem who was marching in London today.

I think he has more courage, integrity and honour in his little finger than you have in your entire body.

But then he must be an anti-war puke, complete with red Para beret.

Toad · « **Reply #39 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:16:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 10Bears

Hortland you know, or should know that calling people names degenerates your argument. It means you really have no logical bases for debate...

So does that mean we won't be seeing any more posts of yours, 10Bears, from that "journalist" who does nothing but call people names?

Sorry, this comment of yours was just to ironic to let pass.

kbman · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:31:36 PM »

The good news is...Hortland is or will soon be leaving his judge position. He stated so himself on another board. It's hard to imagine how such a hateful and prejudiced individual could have managed to conduct himself with any objectivity at all. Not that I really care...the Swedish Judiciary is the real winner.

kbman

Hortlund · « **Reply #41 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:32:34 PM »

Guys, just for your info, I am so not getting into some "prove that you are a judge"-discussion with you right now. Believe what the he** you want, I dont care one bit.

If you want then ask skuzzy for the IP I'm posting from during weekdays, that IP should lead to a Swedish government server (a court to be exact). If you are really desperate then shoot me an email and I'll give you my phone nr to my office.

Hortlund · « **Reply #42 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:42:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
Tell that to the ex-Para and veteran of Arnhem who was marching in London today.

I think he has more courage, integrity and honour in his little finger than you have in your entire body.

But then he must be an anti-war puke, complete with red Para beret.

Well, get him here on this board and I'll type one post up just for him.

kbman · « **Reply #43 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:49:23 PM »

A few points:

1) I sincerely doubt that anyone cares enough to trouble Skuzzy, who has many better things to do, with such a request.

2) Skuzzy has far too much integrity to give out priveledged information to settle a grudge match on this board. It's not in his or HTCs best interest to do so.

3) It doesn't matter. It's only important to your own overblown ego.

kbman

Hortlund · « **Reply #44 on:** February 15, 2003, 12:59:26 PM »

With all due respect, I'm not the one with something to prove. I'm just tired of all the tards saying they dont believe me when I tell them what I work with. The offer still stands, shoot me an email and I'll give you my work phone nr.

And you, mr "I saw him on another BB" do you think for one second I care what you think about me and my abilities as a judge? You dont know me, that makes any opinion you express about me about as irrelevant as my opinions on your choice of cars.