Author Topic: Convince Me!  (Read 2157 times)

Offline Nomde

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« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2003, 10:55:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
No, Im not french...sorry.


I'm not french, but I find this statement uncalled for. If it was meant as a joke, then state that as such in your reponse. If it was serious, seek professional help.

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2003, 10:57:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nomde
I'm not french, but I find this statement uncalled for. If it was meant as a joke, then state that as such in your reponse. If it was serious, seek professional help.



LOL Frenchy trained you good. :D

Offline Nomde

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« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2003, 11:05:18 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
LOL Frenchy trained you good. :D


You tard, where you at, i'm hunting you personally :D

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2003, 11:09:25 AM »
hehe

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2003, 11:26:23 AM »
Heh Curval, I don't have to do the search or argue about it. Hortlund is best off explaining the palestinians why they should leave thier homes..

If he manages to convince THEM there's no problem, hat's off to him.

Offline Lance

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« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2003, 01:04:49 PM »
I am against war with Iraq, here is why.

Iraq is not a threat to the U.S.  They have not attacked us, and the only evidence Powell presented for their ties to terrorism is an Al Qaeda cell operating in their country, which can be said about many other countries on the globe, inlcuding ours.  Their are no money trails, no arms deals, nothing at all concrete.  We have no evidence of when a weapon is made in Iraq, it winds up in a terrorists hands.

The monetary cost is huge, at a time when our economy can't afford it.  $100 to $200 billion dollars on top of the largest deficit increase in history.  

We are expending a huge amount of world political clout to take down a non-threat to us.  Even in many of the countries that support us, public opinion of the war is low.  It is very possible that the next series of elections are won or lost based on support for this war, and that there are many more anti-American governments in the world because of it.  It will be tougher to align the world with us after this when its time to take on legitimate threats.

We are going to help Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups rather than hurt them with this war.  Iraq is not a breeding ground of terrorism, like Afganistan was.  No terrorists groups are going to be at all disrupted by this war.  They will instead be aided.  More people will turn to their cause when the bodies start to drop for no good reason.

Finally, people are going to die.  A whole toejampotfull of Iraqi's, and too many Americans, Brits and whoever else comes along with us.

To sum it up, the costs outweigh the gains, imo.  For the end of taking down a government that we have no links to an attack on the U.S., we pay billions of dollars, have less influence in the world, convert more people to our enemies cause, and get some of our folks killed.  These costs are only justifiable against a real, concrete U.S. threat, imo.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2003, 01:41:17 PM »
Hiya Gordo!

Hey, you look pretty good dressed in logic! ;)

WWI.. we were not directly threatened. We went.

WWII, ditto.

Korea.. those lil chink salamanders eat dogs and cats. Now THATS a gawdamned threat!!

Vietnam.. damn we really had to get those gooks before they overran chicago.

Panama, Greneda, Gulf War.. why; those sonsasqueakes flipped us off! Bastids! Gawdammit all ta hell, they need to have their women spanked!

Afganistan.. now THAT was heluva threat. Long-range camels slippin under our radar were responsible for widespread panic at NORAD. Damn good thing we hit 'em first.

Since none of these folks were direct threats either, we shoulda stayed home and minded our own damn tomatoes.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline blitz

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« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2003, 02:46:42 PM »
Vietnam.. damn we really had to get those gooks before they overran chicago.

Since none of these folks were direct threats either, we shoulda stayed home and minded our own damn tomatoes. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your'e godamn right with Vietnam, would have been much better if ya would have stayed home. Cost to many american and vietnamese lives.


Regards Blitz



America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2003, 02:53:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz

Your'e godamn right with Vietnam, would have been much better if ya would have stayed home. Cost to many american and vietnamese lives.
 


You know Blitz, for every post like this you are loosing more and more respect. To be perfectly honest, I dont know if it is a combination of naive peace-desire and ignorance when it comes to history or just some pure US hatred that motivates you.

Khmere Rouges. Direct result of the US pulling out of the region. Good or bad for Cambodia?

Laos...has anyone even heard about that nation since 75? (Communist dictatorship)

Vietnam...yeah, that sure turned out well after the commies won. How many wars have they been involved in since 75? Two I think, China and Cambodia.

If the US had stayed in Vietnam, none of that would have happened.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2003, 02:56:25 PM »
Not quite true, Hangtime. Germany declared war on the US in WW2. Had Hitler not made that blunder, the Soviet Union might have been conquered and Britain would have had to sue for peace. I really doubt the US would have declared war on Hitler and come to Europe's aid, at that time.

Korea, Vietnam and the last Gulf War revolved around direct military invasions of friendly nations and US interests.

Saddam, OTOH is contained.

Everything you wrote rung true, Lance.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2003, 03:01:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Had Hitler not made that blunder, the Soviet Union might have been conquered and Britain would have had to sue for peace.  


Not to worry Dowding. Straffo's new signature assures us all that the Russians would have ultimately triumphed.

;)
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Offline Dowding

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« Reply #86 on: February 16, 2003, 03:05:19 PM »
That would have been a shame - Russian looks like a squeak to learn. ;)
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #87 on: February 16, 2003, 03:27:08 PM »
LOL!

I dunno.. I guess it boils down to our individual takes on the Iraq threat... some think there is no credible threat, and I have to admit, the case laid out by Gordo is as concise and un-peppered with anti-anything rational points as any I've seen yet.

We are all looking at the same info, and we're all comming to differing conclusions as to the severity of the situation.

So, I guess I have to consider my personal motives for my stance as being those that color my arguments here.

And my motives are far from pure... I detest the French Policy of Appeasement and Support for Saddam. I despise all traitors to western democracy. I hate to the very center of my being Hussein and what he stands for... I think the guys Hitler in a new suit. And, I think that he's gonna hand AQ the keys to armegeddon. And I fear the French will give him what he needs to do it, gleefully, in the hope of forming a new european alliance brefit of an america that gives a damn about what happens more than 200 miles off our coast. IMHO, France wants an isolationist america, and is willing to sponsor as many WTC's as it takes to make us give up and go home.

Thats just me, I could be wrong. I don't think I am.

But hey; at the end of the day, determining what is right and what is wrong is only a matter of who's left to tell the story when the killing stops.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Lance

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« Reply #88 on: February 16, 2003, 03:33:57 PM »
:::chuckles::: I know I look good in logic, Hang.  You would too!

Some of those we were directly attacked/threatened, some we weren't.  Some were justified, some weren't.

Now, logically explain to me how we are justified in:

A) Overthrowing a government that has not attacked us or invaded anyone since the last time we squeak slapped them, and which we have no credible evidence of supporting terrorism?

B) Spending 100-200 billion dollars to overthrow said government in the current economic climate

C) Calling in tons of favors and expending almost all of the world's 9/11 sympathy on overthrowing said government.

D)  Sending American's to die to overthrow said government.

E)  Plotting a course that will send people to our enemies cause when that action does nothing to weaken or dismantle those enemies as a trade off.

EDIT:  Just read your last post, Hang, and you are right.  It is all how much of a threat you view Iraq.  If I felt their existence threatened the U.S., well, its us or them, so lets make sure its us.  But I don't think they do.  

Saddam is no more a threat now than he was 3 years ago.  What has changed since then is us, because of 9/11.  I think we're (understandably)pissed off and scared, and its clouding our judgement as to what is legitimate justification for war.

Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2003, 03:49:52 PM by Lance »

Offline straffo

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« Reply #89 on: February 16, 2003, 03:43:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
That would have been a shame - Russian looks like a squeak to learn. ;)


Has seen on some comment here in the O'club we french are pretty goood learner as we all started to speak german fluently after may 1940.

And btw it's not that Russian is a difficult language but more that English is pretty simple compared to some others :p