Author Topic: Grun & Mark AT...... Confederates :D (Read 2445 times)

Leslie · « **Reply #75 on:** February 28, 2003, 01:50:56 AM »

I have two Confederate battle flags in my house. One is in the computer room, and the other is in my bedroom. I do not display this flag publicly, mainly because I don't want to have my house burned down.

On the other hand, I'm from Alabama, and having a Confederate flag in my bedroom helps me sleep at night. It works.

Les:cool:

Batz · « **Reply #76 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:15:04 AM »

I grew up in Fredricksburg, Va. If you go to places like the "Wildernes", Fort Ap Hill, Manasas, hell even stand on the hill looking across the Field at Gettysburg you cant possibly think that men, poor southern dirt farmers, who suffered as a result of slavery, fought and died for some rich plantation owners.

Thats just complete absolute roadkill.

They fough for the same reason men fought against the British during the War for Independence. These men were Virginians, Georgians 1st then Americans. Their state and their rights as a state were more important to them then any "Union". They were against an expanding intrusive Federal government and had no use for "Presidents" or "Kings". So much so the even Jefferson Davis had a tough time organizing the Confederation.

Slavery was on the way out any way, the world had changed and the South would have too.

Find

Hoyt Axton's

oh I'm a good 'ole Rebel .mp3

Its from Songs of the Civil War.

Great tune

Leslie · « **Reply #77 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:17:58 AM »

Oh, I'm a good ole Rebel

That's just what I am.

For this fair land of freedom

I don't give a damn.

I'm glad I fought against it

Only wish we had won.

I want you to know.

I got the rhumatism

a camping in the snow.

But I killed a chance of Yankees

and love to kill some more.

Three hundred thousand Yankees

in snow and dirt and dust.

We got a hundred thousand

Before they conquered us.

I got the Rhumatism

a camping in the snow.

But I killed a chance of Yankees

and I'd love to kill some more.

I hate the Yankee nation

and everything they do.

I hate the nasty Eagle

with all its brag and fuss.

I hate the Constitution

and I won't be Reconstructed

and I don't give a damn.

But the lying, thieving Yankees

I hates 'em worst and worst.

Les

Batz · « **Reply #78 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:44:07 AM »

Damn you kinda butchered but close enough

I got the mp3 and zip to ya if ya want

Leslie · « **Reply #79 on:** February 28, 2003, 07:40:53 AM »

Thanks Batz, but I have the Julian Rayford version on a casette tape. Rayford was an artist during the 40s. Haven't listened to that tape in 20 years. But I still remember parts of it.

Still have the tape somewhere around here. Gotta be stoned to listen to it though. It's a good one.

~~Les~~

midnight Target · « **Reply #80 on:** February 28, 2003, 10:00:01 AM »

Lets really simplify this little issue.

South: We have the right to own slaves!
North: You may be right but slavery is wrong and we are going to try and stop it.
South: Told you we were right!

<---for animal

Toad · « **Reply #81 on:** February 28, 2003, 10:06:50 AM »

Except, of course, that that is not at all what the North "said". But carry on.

midnight Target · « **Reply #82 on:** February 28, 2003, 10:33:25 AM »

Yea, I know, but this is way more fun than pasting all that evidence.

Toad · « **Reply #83 on:** February 28, 2003, 10:44:25 AM »

Yeah........ Weazel seems to agree... and a few others.

Dune · « **Reply #84 on:** February 28, 2003, 01:40:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Yeah........ Weazel seems to agree... and a few others.

But it takes way too long to do it. This took me a whole minute.

Quote

In President Lincoln's first inaugural address, he said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so." During the war, in an 1862 letter to the New York Daily Tribune editor Horace Greeley, Lincoln said, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery."

From: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/98/civil-war.htm

midnight Target · « **Reply #85 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:04:19 PM »

Doesn't matter what motivation led the North to fight for the Union. What matters is the motivation of the South to secede. Quote Lincoln all you want. Then go read the platform of the Alabama Democracy, or the text of the Crittenden Compromise and tell me the South's secession had nothing to do with the protection of their right to own slaves.

(in my best Foghorn Leghorn) - BS suh I say BS.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #86 on:** February 28, 2003, 03:48:53 PM »

What I find funny is this southern attempt to skirt around the obvious.

Let me ask you this why should we place any credibility on the southern view that the war was not about slavery when many southerners of the time quite honestly belevied slavery was a good thing for blacks?

Why was it only that the big slave interest states secedded? Why didnt massachussets secede? Why did all the "states rights" sates just happend to be the big slave states?

Reading you guys skirting around the obvious is comedy...

Toad · « **Reply #87 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:13:10 PM »

Educate Yourselves

Quote

In framing the Constitution of the Confederate States, the authors adopted, with numerous elisions and additions, the language of the Constitution of the United States, and followed the same order of arrangement of articles and sections. The changes made in this adaptation of the old Constitution are here shown. The parts stricken out are enclosed in brackets, and the new matter added in framing the Confederate Constitution is printed in italics.

Toad · « **Reply #88 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:15:17 PM »

The Short Version:

Quote

The Confederate Constitution

By Randall G. Holcombe

Special interests have long used the democratic political process to produce legislation for their own private benefit, and the U.S. Constitution contains flaws that make this easier. One attempt to remedy these flaws was the Confederate Constitution.

The Confederate Constitutional Convention opened in February 1861. Robert Barnwell Rhett of South Carolina, called the "Father of Secession" for initiating his state's breakoff from the union, thought that the U.S. model was the best. The other 50 delegates agreed. He nominated Howell Cobb, a Georgia attorney and former Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, to preside over the meeting, which was completed by March I 1, 1861. By the end of that year, 13 states had ratified the new Constitution.

In broad outline, the Confederate Constitution is an amended U.S. Constitution. Even on slavery, there is little difference. Whereas the U.S. Constitution ended the importation of slaves after 1808, the Confederate Constitution simply forbade it. Both constitutions allowed slave ownership, of course.

In fact, slavery only became a constitutional issue after the war had begun. In his 1861 inaugural address, Abraham Lincoln said, "Apprehension seems to exist among the people of the Southern States that by the accession of a Republican administration their property [is] to be endangered.... I have no purpose, directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the United States where it exists.... I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclina6on to do so."

But the differences in the documents, small as they are, are extremely important. The people who wrote the Southern Constitution had lived under the federal one. They knew its strengths, which they tried to copy, and its weaknesses, which they tried to eliminate.

One grave weakness in the U.S. Constitution is the "general welfare" clause, which the Confederate Constitution eliminated.

The U.S. Constitution gives Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

The Confederate Constitution gave Congress the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, for revenue necessary to pay the debts, provide for the common defense, and carry on the Government of the Confederate States..."

The Southern drafters thought the general welfare clause was an open door for any type of government intervention. They were, of course, right.

Immediately following that clause in the Confederate Constitution is a clause that has no parallel in the U.S. Constitution. It affirms strong support for free trade and opposition to protectionism: "but no bounties shall be granted from the Treasury; nor shall any duties or taxes on importation from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry."

The use of tariffs to shelter domestic industries from foreign competition had been an important issue since tariffs were first adopted in 1816. Southern states had borne heavy costs since tariffs protected northern manufacturing at the expense of Southern imports. The South exported agricultural commodities and imported almost all the goods it consumed, either from abroad or from Northern states. Tariffs drastically raised the cost of goods in the Southern states, while most of the tariff revenue was spent in the North.

The Confederate Constitution prevents Congress from appropriating money "for any internal improvement intended to facilitate commerce" except for improvement to facilitate waterway navigation. But "in all such cases, such duties shall be laid on the navigation facilitated thereby, as may be necessary to pay for the costs and expenses thereof..."

"Internal improvements" were pork-barrel public works projects. Thus the Southern Founders sought to prohibit general revenues from being used for the benefit of special interests. Tax revenues were to be spent for programs that benefited everyone, not a specific segment of the population.

In another attack on pork-barrel spending, the Confederate Constitution gave the President a line-item veto. "The President may approve any appropriation and disapprove any other appropriation in the same bill." Anticipating the U.S. Constitutional amendment that would become necessary after Franklin Roosevelt's four terms, the President himself would serve only one, six-year term.

In many circumstances, Confederate appropriations required a two-thirds majority rather than a simple majority. Without the President's request, for example, a two-thirds majority of both Houses would have been necessary for Congress to spend any money. This one provision, if adopted in the U.S. Constitution, would eliminate much of the spending that goes on today.

The Confederate Founders also tried to make sure that there would be no open-ended commitments or entitlement programs in the Confederate States. "All bills appropriating money shall specify...the exact amount of each appropriation, and the purposes for which it is made," said the document. "And Congress shall grant no extra compensation to any public contractor, officer, agent, or servant, after such contract shall have been made or such service rendered." Such a provision would have eliminated the cost-overrun," a favorite boondoggle of today's government contractors.

The Confederate Constitution also eliminated omnibus spending bills by requiring all legislation to "relate to but one subject," which had to be "expressed in the title." There would be no "Christmas-tree" appropriations bills or hidden expenditures.

These changes would have had a profound effect in keeping government small and unintrusive. Their inclusion demonstrates much wisdom on the part of Confederate statesmen in improving on the Founding Fathers. Unfortunately, the federal government was not willing to let them give their system a try.

---------

Randall G. Holcombe, an adjunct scholar of the Mises Institute, teaches economics at Florida State University.

The Confederate Constitution

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #89 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:36:26 PM »

What were the confederate states exporting?