Author Topic: US POWs  (Read 2924 times)

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2003, 09:19:25 PM »
You having a hard time following me? :)

Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Obviously english is not your native language.  I stated in no uncertain terms that the news is not for entertainment, it was for information.

In fact, that was a key point in my argument.

Let me know where you hail from, and I'll have my reply translated.
Gone from the game. Please see Spikes or Nefarious for any Ahevents.net admin needs.

Fuzzybunny

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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2003, 01:33:17 AM »
The images shown on US TV stations were NOT POWs but rather Iraqi soldiers who surrendered, ie. not captured and detained against their will.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2003, 01:58:04 AM »
Martlet- apparently you are a whoopee idiot.  Or maybe I am, I don't know.  I interpreted that the same way Kanth did, though.  

That said- if those ****ing jackals executed POWs, they really deserve to die a slow and extraordinarily painful death.  

It really seems stupid to me why the 'average' Iraqi soldier would even bother fighting.  Patriotism I guess, but their cause is hopeless and the sooner they quit fighting the sooner they can get to the business of remaking their country into something (hopefully) better.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2003, 02:08:47 AM »
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No, they realized they their situation was desperate and surrendered to save their lives. Just like the Iraqis captured.


At least that is what they thought they were doing...

Fuzzybunny

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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2003, 02:10:04 AM »
So you fail to see the difference between someone "turning themselves in" versus "being captured", subtle difference maybe, but definitely different.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2003, 02:37:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Martlet- apparently you are a whoopee idiot.  Or maybe I am, I don't know.  I interpreted that the same way Kanth did, though.  

That said- if those ****ing jackals executed POWs, they really deserve to die a slow and extraordinarily painful death.  

It really seems stupid to me why the 'average' Iraqi soldier would even bother fighting.  Patriotism I guess, but their cause is hopeless and the sooner they quit fighting the sooner they can get to the business of remaking their country into something (hopefully) better.


since you don't know, and I do, I'll help you out.  You're right, it's you that's the idiot.

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2003, 03:08:47 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
On the point of why the Iraqi regulars are fighting it seems that you are unaware of one important fact; although most Iraqis hate Saddam, they hate Americans even more. You guys are not exactly popular in that part of the world. Why are they giving more fight now than in 1991? Because now they are defending their homeland, not a conquered Kuwait. Do not kid yourselves, there ARE hard days ahead. When the Coalition reaches the Baghdad stronghold and the 76 thousand strong Republican Guard the Coalition will face the hardest fighting ever. The outcome of the war is not in question however, unless something changes drastically on the "homefront".


I agree...It is different when the hated nme invades your homeland...The common soldier doesn't care that his leader is a POS,he will fight to his last breath.

Look at WW2...When you are fighting fanatics(Japanese/German soldiers on the defense when the war is a lost cause),there is no Geneva convention...NO Quarter taken...No retreat...It is going to get real dirty as has been shown(Iraqi's surrendering,then shooting)...There will be no mass surrendering as hope by everyone.

And when it is almost over,Allied tanks rolling into Baghdad..Saddam in his bunker..Before he pulls the trigger...He pushes the button.
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2003, 08:43:53 AM »
what idiot let that woman anywhere near a combat zone?
lazs

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2003, 08:47:04 AM »
Was it?

Offline straffo

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« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2003, 08:49:29 AM »
I don't think the oval office is a combat zone :D

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2003, 08:50:03 AM »
Ya know.... I believe you are correct.
lazs

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2003, 11:55:56 AM »
Lazs, why should the woman not be near the combat zone?

Because she is a woman? What part of her anatomy makes her unable to fiunction well as a soldier? She is as capable as any man in doing most tasks; only when extreme physical strength is needed is where a woman may come in short. Then again, I know of women that are stronger than me.

And in a survival situation, women are better off than men. Bigger fat reserves and less muscles means less need for energy through food. More fat means better insulation against heat and cold.

Ah, she might get raped if captured. Men can get sodomized with broomsticks, so I don't see how that is different. And men can be shot, too, just as women. Or blown to pieces.

There are enough women in extreme or adventure sports to show that they have the courage. And I've seen enough regular fist fights downtown to know that some women can be as aggressive as men, despite having less testosterone.

I realize that this is one of the last domains where a man can be a man. And I know that one of the gendr roles of a man supposedly is to be the strong protector. But the real reason why women aren't integrated into the armed forces (hell, here they don't even have to do anything with regards to conscriptiion; not even civilian duties or anything, they're let off the hook alltogether) is because it is a cultural thing, not because of something physiological or mental. It's the old school and a mind meme that propogates itself through culture.

Maybe I am wrong. Show me why women shouldn't be in armed forces. I can prolly show you reasons why men shouldn't :).

So, try to get over the macho thing and look at the practicalities involved, and then give me a compelling reason. Possibility or higher likelihood of rape if captured isn't one; getting killed is worse. PMS is also a very weak argument, because women can function also in this time of the cyclus, and invariably it also comes down to just how severe that issue is, which is individual for each woman. What else is there? Pregnancy. Can be avoided and/or a contract can be created in which the woman agrees not to become pregnant/have an abortion if that happens (I know some of you cringe at that word, but if you do it, then think what you should do when you hear the word 'war', which is many times worse).

So the problem is men not being able to contain their urges and biological drives and therefore raping or sexually molesting their female comrades in arms. That I suppose is a very valid concern, especially in units where discipline is low or non existant. It sure is better than the 'modesty' argument which suggests separate facilities for men and women is too much of a hassle.

The biggest issue would be the potential tension caused by having females as armed buddies, for example aboard a nuclear submarine. But all in all, these are small cultural issues that can be overcome. It wasn't that long ago women weren't considered important/worthy/whatever to have the right to vote.

And no. Am not a feminist. In fact, I dislike feminists in general, because it shouldn't be an issue at all, and taking on that feminist shirt is like preparing for confrontation. I just try to look at it rationally and logically, and despite me having an almost instinctual feeling that women should not be soldiers, I must say that there ´logically aren't any real reasons why they shouldn't. Sure, there are obstacles, but none that cannot be overcome. As the last two hundred years have shown, gender roles have dramatically changed. And will continue to do so.

Hah, soon some special forces tough guy macho SEAL dude will get his bellybutton kicked by an equally macho SEAL GIRL.

'A girl kicked your arse! Hahahahaha!'. 'A girl killed you in a war! hahahahaha!'. Seems to be the issue here.

Offline ccvi

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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2003, 01:06:01 PM »
As for beeing pilots women are way better suitable than men, because they can sustain higher Gs.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2003, 01:09:58 PM »
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Lazs, why should the woman not be near the combat zone?


StSanta, yes women can do many(if not all) of the same things as a man.  That's not the problem with women in combat IMO.

It's about men and how they'll act with women around.  Will they act, in combat, the same way as if they weren't there.. or will they try to be 'heroes' in their eyes?.. or get distracted?
or will having them there cause soldiers to make different decisions than otherwise?

etc etc..
IMO this is more the reason for not having them than any other.
Quote
So, try to get over the macho thing and look at the practicalities involved, and then give me a compelling reason
there ya go

Offline gofaster

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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2003, 01:14:04 PM »
Yet another example of Iraq's mistreatment of its prisoners - they're threatening to kill kittens now!