Author Topic: US POWs  (Read 3096 times)

Offline Animal

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« Reply #75 on: March 26, 2003, 10:02:54 AM »
Lasz2 I understand your point and agree to a certain extent on the reaction the public would have to women getting tortured or executed, and that sort of problem.

What I'm trying to point out, is that a woman is just as capable as a man when it comes to shooting a rifle, soldiering, and operating heavy and complex machinery of war.

body strenght is and all that jazz is simply irrelevant in the modern battlefield, even though I still believe most female soldiers can kick the bellybutton of any iraqui raghead in h2h combat, but war isnt fought that way anymore. As long as a woman is capable of carrying and running with her equipment, and shooting her rifle accurately, she'll do ok.

What you are saying about women being uncapable of certain task, altought you exagerate it greatly, is true to some extent, our armed forces are aware of this, and that is why women are not sent to the front lines or join special forces teams. That woman POW was a mechanic who wasnt supposed to be in that zone in the first place. And still just by looking at her she doesnt look any better or worse than her fellow POWs.

The armed forces are well aware of the capabilities of women. Much more than all of us combined. They dont put women in F-16 or give them M016 just to be PC. They basically look for any person who can excell at doing that job and they dont care wether its male, female, dog, martian, muslim. If you can do the job well, you are the right person for the job.

End of story.

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #76 on: March 26, 2003, 10:04:46 AM »
contrary to what you believe the alice pack (thing used to hump a load) is only balanced by the upper obdy..it's built to rest on the hips (the weight is carried by the hips and legs) to free up the upper body for shooting.

who has more lower body strength...and the amount of  endurance required is trained into a willing person who wants to do the job.

my point is, the amount of strength and endurance you are talking about isn't hurculean, it's beyond the norm, yet not beyond the capabilities of women.
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Offline batdog

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« Reply #77 on: March 26, 2003, 10:15:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
contrary to what you believe the alice pack (thing used to hump a load) is only balanced by the upper obdy..it's built to rest on the hips (the weight is carried by the hips and legs) to free up the upper body for shooting.

who has more lower body strength...and the amount of  endurance required is trained into a willing person who wants to do the job.

my point is, the amount of strength and endurance you are talking about isn't hurculean, it's beyond the norm, yet not beyond the capabilities of women.



LOL.... sorry bro the Alice pack is a mini pack used by mech units. You goto a light infantry unit and you carry a Golly-geen full size pack. I know..I carried one while humping a M60 among other weapons. That pack your talking about drives your damn head foward... the wieght tears into your shoulders and you dont use the damn belt... you cut it off or tape it up as it does next to nothing and just slows down the time it take to get it off if your getting shot at. Then..with all that damn wieght..70 to 100 pounds at time you struggel to get the GD thing back on and continue the misery of movement.

Then..you add in a vaiable of say swamp..or sand.. this take s EVEN more endurance str as it wear your bellybutton out trying to stay upright w/the damn thing.

Dont even try to be some sort of expert on that thing unless you carried it. I still have great trapoziods due to carry that GD ruck and my 60 after 10+ yrs.
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2003, 10:19:10 AM »
When Britain first set up Israel as a country after WW II the Isreali's put women in combat units. When a woman got killed unit cohesion broke down completely. Men simply couldnt handle seeing a woman blown to pieces next to them. The Israeli's removed women from the combat units and solved the problem.

I read about this some years ago but don't recall the source or I would post it.

Unit cohesion breaking down is enough of a reason to NOT allow women in combat.


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Offline Kanth

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« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2003, 10:26:10 AM »
I did carry it, and I did carry it humping heavy loads, you use the belt or your back will get fluffied up. That's why it has a frame, so you don't mess up your shoulders and back trying to wear it wrong.

don't fight your equiptment and you'll have an easier time doing your job.

btw an expert?? on alice packs?? ya I studied them for years and have a PHD is ruck sacks. hope yer kidding

Quote
Originally posted by batdog

Dont even try to be some sort of expert on that thing unless you carried it. I still have great trapoziods due to carry that GD ruck and my 60 after 10+ yrs.
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2003, 10:34:44 AM »
then again if you could get a division of women whos monthly cycle was in sync, the war could be over in a week - THAT WEEK!

"ladies" do not belong on the front lines or anywhere near them
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Offline Kanth

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« Reply #81 on: March 26, 2003, 10:36:48 AM »
bad news for you, they *are* on the front lines and they belong there as much as any other american soldier.

Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
then again if you could get a division of women whos monthly cycle was in sync, the war could be over in a week - THAT WEEK!

"ladies" do not belong on the front lines or anywhere near them
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Offline batdog

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« Reply #82 on: March 26, 2003, 10:56:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
I did carry it, and I did carry it humping heavy loads, you use the belt or your back will get fluffied up. That's why it has a frame, so you don't mess up your shoulders and back trying to wear it wrong.

don't fight your equiptment and you'll have an easier time doing your job.

btw an expert?? on alice packs?? ya I studied them for years and have a PHD is ruck sacks. hope yer kidding



Nope..the belt doesnt do poop. Not trying to blast you but I'm going by personal experience. I was a gloriefied grunt and I carried it alot. The pack isnt designed for good wieght distrubution like a civilian pack. Maybe they've changed since I was in.

BTW when/where did you do miltary service?
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #83 on: March 26, 2003, 11:11:21 AM »
I'm a (I guess now it'd be first gulf war) vet Batdog :)

uh60T10 USArmy out of Fort Bragg.

carrying a pack definately wasn't my primary (obviously) but I have and over long distances carrying heavy...once I had it adjusted properly I didn't notice it too much..(usually was more worried about my feet than the sack)

  I think many people wear it too high up on the back because it seems more natural..but for long distances (20 miles +) it'll hurt ya.



how about you? where/when?

Quote
Originally posted by batdog
Nope..the belt doesnt do poop. Not trying to blast you but I'm going by personal experience. I was a gloriefied grunt and I carried it alot. The pack isnt designed for good wieght distrubution like a civilian pack. Maybe they've changed since I was in.

BTW when/where did you do miltary service?
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Offline batdog

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« Reply #84 on: March 26, 2003, 12:16:09 PM »
1/75th, 24inf and final UNC Honor Guard Korea (It beat the DMZ for sure :) ).

Most of my tour was in Georgia, my last year was in Korea. I didnt do sh(* worth bragging about considering whats going on now for sure. I learned to do push ups in ways I never thought possiable, I learned to hate Spec 4's till I was one. I learned to hate everybody..even my mom. I learned to drink upside down.
I learned that just becuase it burns doesnt mean you've got the clap..but it still aint a good thing. I learned that nobody gives a sh*& what you've done when you get out. Including myself.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2003, 01:06:53 PM by batdog »
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Animal

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« Reply #85 on: March 26, 2003, 01:25:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by batdog
1/75th, 24inf and final UNC Honor Guard Korea (It beat the DMZ for sure :) ).

Most of my tour was in Georgia, my last year was in Korea. I didnt do sh(* worth bragging about considering whats going on now for sure. I learned to do push ups in ways I never thought possiable, I learned to hate Spec 4's till I was one. I learned to hate everybody..even my mom. I learned to drink upside down.
I learned that just becuase it burns doesnt mean you've got the clap..but it still aint a good thing. I learned that nobody gives a sh*& what you've done when you get out. Including myself.


Nice post!!!

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #86 on: March 26, 2003, 02:07:29 PM »
^^

 Hey!! where'd you get that avatar!

we can have those now??

[edit] OH I SEE KEWL!![/edit]


two things I'll take away from the army, the sense of family and the amount of really large expensive toys you get to play with.

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Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #87 on: March 26, 2003, 02:11:21 PM »
Women can be very athletic and strong ..

some of the female athlete's around here could probably kick most of your butts!!!

they have endurance, feriocity, intelligence, and yes.. strength.
amazing strength.  

and some of the 'men' I've seen come through get tired if they can't use the elevator..
it's too broad a brush to say women this , men that..

it's more of an individual thing IMO.


that said, I still wouldn't want my platoon/wing whatever, with a mix of men and women on the front..
due to the distinct possibility that having women there may change the habbits of the men.

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #88 on: March 26, 2003, 02:22:22 PM »
Sorry Fishu I missed your response in this thread earlier today.  Back to the Geneva Convention issue....

Quote
Guys.. many of those captured in afganistan, who ended to US, did not even carry a weapon, but were rather arrested.

How exactly were they combatants in civilian clothes in that case?


To be honest I'm not sure, I'm not a lawyer, let alone an international lawyer.  But in the case above the Geneva convention definitely would not cover those people.  The Geneva convention is very specific in how it defines military personnel and how they should be treated.  But, its ONLY for military personnel.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #89 on: March 26, 2003, 02:43:38 PM »
my points remain valid.   men react differently around women... the few women that may make minimal standard for front line duty are not worth the cost and effort.

I will say that there are no women that could kick the crap out of an iraqi soldier in hand to hand... and no matter how you cut it... there will allways be a chance that it will come to that.

If I had to get a bunch of ammo or whatever moved in a big hurry I sure don't want to depend on women to do it..  so what do you do? leave it behind because you are the platoon that got stuck with the women?

I don't want to count on the men not being affected by a "coed" combat group.  You aren't going to break 20 years of training in a few months.... and why should you?   to be PC?

In dowdings example... I bet that the woman who finished would still have a hard time taking on joey butta****o even after he has polished off a 6 pack and a 20 oz prime rib.

If there is no difference then there should be no restrictions... "starship troopers" kinda heinlien la la land... the troops need to all shower together and sleep in the same tents barracks whatever... same open stalled bathrooms for everyone.
lazs