Author Topic: US POWs  (Read 2943 times)

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2003, 01:16:41 PM »
Thanks alot gofaster, I almost choked on my donut.
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Offline batdog

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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2003, 01:18:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
Lazs, why should the woman not be near the combat zone?

Because she is a woman? What part of her anatomy makes her unable to fiunction well as a soldier? She is as capable as any man in doing most tasks; only when extreme physical strength is needed is where a woman may come in short. Then again, I know of women that are stronger than me.

And in a survival situation, women are better off than men. Bigger fat reserves and less muscles means less need for energy through food. More fat means better insulation against heat and cold.

Ah, she might get raped if captured. Men can get sodomized with broomsticks, so I don't see how that is different. And men can be shot, too, just as women. Or blown to pieces.

There are enough women in extreme or adventure sports to show that they have the courage. And I've seen enough regular fist fights downtown to know that some women can be as aggressive as men, despite having less testosterone.

I realize that this is one of the last domains where a man can be a man. And I know that one of the gendr roles of a man supposedly is to be the strong protector. But the real reason why women aren't integrated into the armed forces (hell, here they don't even have to do anything with regards to conscriptiion; not even civilian duties or anything, they're let off the hook alltogether) is because it is a cultural thing, not because of something physiological or mental. It's the old school and a mind meme that propogates itself through culture.

Maybe I am wrong. Show me why women shouldn't be in armed forces. I can prolly show you reasons why men shouldn't :).

So, try to get over the macho thing and look at the practicalities involved, and then give me a compelling reason. Possibility or higher likelihood of rape if captured isn't one; getting killed is worse. PMS is also a very weak argument, because women can function also in this time of the cyclus, and invariably it also comes down to just how severe that issue is, which is individual for each woman. What else is there? Pregnancy. Can be avoided and/or a contract can be created in which the woman agrees not to become pregnant/have an abortion if that happens (I know some of you cringe at that word, but if you do it, then think what you should do when you hear the word 'war', which is many times worse).

So the problem is men not being able to contain their urges and biological drives and therefore raping or sexually molesting their female comrades in arms. That I suppose is a very valid concern, especially in units where discipline is low or non existant. It sure is better than the 'modesty' argument which suggests separate facilities for men and women is too much of a hassle.

The biggest issue would be the potential tension caused by having females as armed buddies, for example aboard a nuclear submarine. But all in all, these are small cultural issues that can be overcome. It wasn't that long ago women weren't considered important/worthy/whatever to have the right to vote.

And no. Am not a feminist. In fact, I dislike feminists in general, because it shouldn't be an issue at all, and taking on that feminist shirt is like preparing for confrontation. I just try to look at it rationally and logically, and despite me having an almost instinctual feeling that women should not be soldiers, I must say that there ´logically aren't any real reasons why they shouldn't. Sure, there are obstacles, but none that cannot be overcome. As the last two hundred years have shown, gender roles have dramatically changed. And will continue to do so.

Hah, soon some special forces tough guy macho SEAL dude will get his bellybutton kicked by an equally macho SEAL GIRL.

'A girl kicked your arse! Hahahahaha!'. 'A girl killed you in a war! hahahahaha!'. Seems to be the issue here.



Santa..I like you but your smoking dope. With regards to women in the miltary..sure. With regards to women in some combat roles, sure why not. With regards to women in say an infantry unit/specials ops etc...no way in hell. Why? Its simple...men are superior physicaly in what it takes to do these roles. Want me to prove it....

A) Take the BEST female in a sporting event

B) Take the best Male.

C) Compare

D) There is a REASON why the BEST female atheltes compete seperatly from the males.

The military goes by averages... a typical female simply cant endure say a 20mile forced march w/a full combat load... ie approx 60-80pds of equipment on her back plus sustain operations for days.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2003, 01:20:34 PM by batdog »
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Udie

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« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2003, 01:33:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Yet another example of Iraq's mistreatment of its prisoners - they're threatening to kill kittens now!




 Who do they think they are?  God?

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2003, 03:29:53 PM »
Batdog, maybe yer right about special ops. Very valid point.

The army did some experiments with ordinary housewives - got them on weight training etc. In the end, they ended up slightly better than the average male performance wise. Am talking standard military units here.

Of course if males were given the same standards, they'd be stronger than the females. My point is, however, that if women are dedicated enough, they sure can fit in into a normal infantry squad. And they're more than qualified for support roles - such as the one the woman who is now a POW had, which is why I disagree with lazs who has the opinion that she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Interesting little story; in Gulf War 1 there was a similar incident. Female said males were going the wrong way in their truck. males disagreeed and there was an argument, and in the end, the woman was overruled by democracy and peer pressure. So they drove straight into a town occupied by Iraqis.

So, I think it is *sexist* that women are exempt from all forms of participation in our conscript army. If they can, under threat of violence, force a man to serve/slave (depends on how you view it :)), they should apply the same to women. Cannot have discrimination. oh yes we can, but only if it goes one way. Forgot about that.

And I don't smoke dope batdog :). That stuff make me all dizzy and stuff, don't feel good at all. Now, gimme vodka and coca cola or sprite....or some good brewed beer...and you'll find a Santa dancing in the most odd ways, most likely near or with....WOMEN.

:D

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2003, 05:01:32 PM »
Women can preform equally to men in combat.  It just has to do with the role they are given, and they should have to meet the same requirements.  You have to suit the job to the person, regardless of the sex.  I've seen men in positions they shouldn't be in, strictly due to their physical capabilities.

You just have to be able to do the job.

Offline Animal

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« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2003, 05:37:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
If you want to watch the news so you can begin to become INFORMED, then I'd suggest CNN or Fox.



Haha... HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHA!!!!!

Offline batdog

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« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2003, 05:53:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
Batdog, maybe yer right about special ops. Very valid point.

The army did some experiments with ordinary housewives - got them on weight training etc. In the end, they ended up slightly better than the average male performance wise. Am talking standard military units here.

Of course if males were given the same standards, they'd be stronger than the females. My point is, however, that if women are dedicated enough, they sure can fit in into a normal infantry squad. And they're more than qualified for support roles - such as the one the woman who is now a POW had, which is why I disagree with lazs who has the opinion that she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Interesting little story; in Gulf War 1 there was a similar incident. Female said males were going the wrong way in their truck. males disagreeed and there was an argument, and in the end, the woman was overruled by democracy and peer pressure. So they drove straight into a town occupied by Iraqis.

So, I think it is *sexist* that women are exempt from all forms of participation in our conscript army. If they can, under threat of violence, force a man to serve/slave (depends on how you view it :)), they should apply the same to women. Cannot have discrimination. oh yes we can, but only if it goes one way. Forgot about that.

And I don't smoke dope batdog :). That stuff make me all dizzy and stuff, don't feel good at all. Now, gimme vodka and coca cola or sprite....or some good brewed beer...and you'll find a Santa dancing in the most odd ways, most likely near or with....WOMEN.

:D


When the hell are you coming back to the friggen game? I'd pay your subscription for a couple of months. Interested, let me know.
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Animal

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« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2003, 05:57:25 PM »
I'll also pay a month or two for him. Seriously.

(and no favors in return needed! *wink* *nudge* ;) )

Offline RedLip Chronic

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« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2003, 05:59:37 PM »
Glad to know your not cheap.

:rolleyes:

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2003, 08:58:42 AM »
santa... that is crap.. women are not as aggressive as men and they do not have the upper body strength... you are a liberal so I can believe that you know women that are stronger than you... that is not the point.

wlfgang made the point... men don't need the extra baggage of worrying about women in combat... the people do not need the extra baggage of worrying about women POW's.

I will say you are a liar if you say that your reaction to hearing that one of the POW's was a woman made no difference to you.

Also... men think alike.. women think alike... I don't need to learn how women think when I am busy.   I don't like surprises in tense situations.
lazs

Offline Animal

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« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2003, 09:01:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
santa... that is crap.. women are not as aggressive as men and they do not have the upper body strength... you are a liberal so I can believe that you know women that are stronger than you... that is not the point.

wlfgang made the point... men don't need the extra baggage of worrying about women in combat... the people do not need the extra baggage of worrying about women POW's.

I will say you are a liar if you say that your reaction to hearing that one of the POW's was a woman made no difference to you.

Also... men think alike.. women think alike... I don't need to learn how women think when I am busy.   I don't like surprises in tense situations.
lazs


LOL you obviously have not dealt with women in a military setting.

You are so, so wrong, except for the part about the public reacting diferent to women POW. You are right there.

Its because like you, they dont know any better.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2003, 03:44:43 PM »
well animal... I guess with your many years of experiance with women and especially women in mens job that you know all about it?

get a few more years under your belt laughing boy and we will talk about women then.   hint.... they can't really kick mens butts like in the movies or TV shows..... big fat blowhards like but****o can kick the crap out of the best of em.  

live a little longer and you may find that there are differences that you will not be able to fathom.

I have no problem with women in non combat roles so long as strength is not important... no .... "life or death"
lazs

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2003, 12:40:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
LOL you obviously have not dealt with women in a military setting.

You are so, so wrong, except for the part about the public reacting diferent to women POW. You are right there.

Its because like you, they dont know any better.


Actually Animal... your wrong, and wolf is making very valid (and witnessed by yours truly) if not pc-incorrect points.

I support women in the military don't get me wrong... I definately believe women make perfectly good pilots  and a whole host of etc's... however

Women have no business in the infantry or special ops (ground).. none (JMHO) and until god, genetics or evolution make some serious changes quickly.. that will remain so for our lifetimes.  Thats not attributable to one characteristic... but a combination of many variables.

And just to clarify.. I do know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Offline Kanth

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« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2003, 01:13:28 AM »
No , he's not wrong.

Quote
Originally posted by Tumor
Actually Animal... your wrong
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Offline batdog

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« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2003, 06:33:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Upper body strength can be built up. The standards should be the same for men and women ... they will just have to work more for it.



The body builder pic is misleading. This is a woman is has spent YEARS upon YEARS gaining this size. The miltary DOES NOT have years to develop this, period.

 If we had say a warrior culture where females started at birth conditioning for the miltary then yes... they could hang w/men.
We do not... thus men are the only ones allowed in combat arms ground units.

P.S. Even then..with a warior culture..the men would still outpace the women by a large margin thus they still might not be seen as acceptable in ground force combat units.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2003, 06:36:37 AM by batdog »
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu