Author Topic: Women in war (Read 3176 times)

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #60 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:16:56 PM »

That's not the point, the point is the female cat was in a dire situation.

I came back because you argued something different that I wanted to clear up.

Short of brainwashing men, you can't deny them their instincts to go to the aid of a woman in a dire situation.

This is how it is, and is not comparable to any of this: "for example murders, rapes, the killing of children and pets"

As for Miko- No, that's not the point. The point is the man(or men) will come to the womans aid, many times despite their better judgement.
-SW

Kanth · « **Reply #61 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:22:43 PM »

Just as women will come to men's aid, just as it should be.

just as a sniper will wound one man and when the next goes to save him, he will wound that one as well and so on...

saving lives isn't a gender based instinct.

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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
That's not the point, the point is the female cat was in a dire situation.

I came back because you argued something different that I wanted to clear up.

Short of brainwashing men, you can't deny them their instincts to go to the aid of a woman in a dire situation.

This is how it is, and is not comparable to any of this: "for example murders, rapes, the killing of children and pets"

As for Miko- No, that's not the point. The point is the man(or men) will come to the womans aid, many times despite their better judgement.
-SW

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #62 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:34:05 PM »

It isn't- but a man tends to put rationality behind him when a woman is in a dire situation.

I'm done for real this time, I have to go cook my hunted food (pre-packed steaks from the grocery store... damn! I'm a good hunter).
-SW

lazs2 · « **Reply #63 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:36:36 PM »

cats??? what the fu...? first it's blacks now it's friggin cats??

gender is not race and it sure as hell ain't species.

kanth... where do you want this to go? Do you feel that violence against women should be treated exactly as it is against men? Do you feel that women should enjoy no special place in society so far as violence is concerned? Do you feel that true equality will never be achieved so long as women aren't commiting as many violent crimes as men? Maybe if we just gave all women daily testosterone injections it would make things fair and equal? Perhaps our science can overcome genetics? Hell, things have been this way for tens of thousands of years it must be time for science or ideolodgy to step in eh?

guys... it don't work.. women in combat is not a good idea.. It never was a good idea and it is not even that great an idea for a last ditch effort.... Please don't give me soviet army examples... I would never want us to immulate WWII soviet military for many reasons... not the least being women in combat...
lazs

Kanth · « **Reply #64 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:57:12 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2

kanth... where do you want this to go?

it's just discussion lazs, it will go where it will regardless of my wants.

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Do you feel that violence against women should be treated exactly as it is against men?

Yep

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Do you feel that women should enjoy no special place in society so far as violence is concerned?

Yep

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Do you feel that true equality will never be achieved so long as women aren't commiting as many violent crimes as men?

equality isn't truer if you name it "True equality" , it either is or it isn't. If women committed the same number of violent crimes as men there would be an equal amount of violent crimes commited by both genders. Not hard to understand.

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Maybe if we just gave all women daily testosterone injections it would make things fair and equal?

Women already have varying amounts of testosterone in their bodys just as men have estrogen. (that's gotta have you up a tree)

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[/b]
Perhaps our science can overcome genetics? Hell, things have been this way for tens of thousands of years it must be time for science or ideolodgy to step in eh?

guys... it don't work.. women in combat is not a good idea.. It never was a good idea and it is not even that great an idea for a last ditch effort.... Please don't give me soviet army examples... I would never want us to immulate WWII soviet military for many reasons... not the least being women in combat...
lazs [/B]

The fact is, in the modern military, women can do the same jobs as men as well and better and because of that fact, they should be doing the job, for no other reason.

The best should be representing and fighting for our country no matter the gender, with no artificial limitations in place.

Stating that something has always been a certain way is always the weak argument when you cannot justify why it should currently be that way. It's an old man's argument in viewing the future, in some cases it is correct, in some cases it's tragic.

narsus · « **Reply #65 on:** March 27, 2003, 02:57:34 PM »

I agree with lazs on this one, here is an example.

A few years ago I was dating this girl, at the time she just received her black belt in karate took her about 7 years. We were joking and she was saying that she could take me in a fight and that she had much more self confindence to stand up for herself in a fight or rape etc.

I told her if she should always run and scream to get away. This debate went on for a few minutes so she ask for me to attack her and get her to the point to where she couldn't fight back.

I ask her if she was ready (she got into her stance) and basically subdued her in about 10 seconds (had her face down in the living room with a choke hold).

Now I will tell you about me I am 5'10" 175lbs which was only about 50 lbs more than her. I have never taken karate, wrestling etc. And I hadn't worked out in about 5 years.

When I let her up and asked her what she learned, she said she would run and scream from now on.

Women shouldn't be foot soldiers, I havent made up my mind about other things. I mean no disrespect just being realistic.

Kanth · « **Reply #66 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:00:33 PM »

stupidity isn't gender related either.

There are alot of people who overestimate their abilities.

every watch REALTV?

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Originally posted by narsus
I agree with lazs on this one, here is an example.

A few years ago I was dating this girl, at the time she just received her black belt in karate took her about 7 years. We were joking and she was saying that she could take me in a fight and that she had much more self confindence to stand up for herself in a fight or rape etc.

I told her if she should always run and scream to get away. This debate went on for a few minutes so she ask for me to attack her and get her to the point to where she couldn't fight back.

I ask her if she was ready (she got into her stance) and basically subdued her in about 10 seconds (had her face down in the living room with a choke hold).

Now I will tell you about me I am 5'10" 175lbs which was only about 50 lbs more than her. I have never taken karate, wrestling etc. And I hadn't worked out in about 5 years.

When I let her up and asked her what she learned, she said she would run and scream from now on.

Women shouldn't be foot soldiers, I havent made up my mind about other things. I mean no disrespect just being realistic.

miko2d · « **Reply #67 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:04:07 PM »

Oh, yeah - chimpansees regularly rape their females while their close relatives bonobos don't.

Both kill and eat orangutangs - which look pretty much like those two species but apparently distinguisheable enough not to be suitable for fraternising or even rape.

miko

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #68 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:08:51 PM »

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Originally posted by miko2d
Oh, yeah - chimpansees regularly rape their females while their close relatives bonobos don't.

Sweet jebus.... rape and animals.

Animals don't have the brain power to consent to sex, either all animals rape or none do.

Ever seen a dog at a park get up on another dog and start pumping away? Hell- sometimes they're both male.
-SW

narsus · « **Reply #69 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:10:07 PM »

Never said it was Kanth, the point I am making is put a woman in hand to hand combat with an equally trained man and the woman will loose a large percentage of the time.

Would a woman loose all the time of course not, but saying that "women" on average have the same strength as men is false hence they are not equal in combat ability.

Women make excellent fighter pilots due to being able to take more G's (heart is closer to the head than men). Fine great be a fighter pilot, but puting women who can't lift the exact same weight as men on "average" of course should not be on the front lines.

quoting you

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There are alot of people who overestimate their abilities.

I couldn't agree more.

Kanth · « **Reply #70 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:10:21 PM »

chimpanzees will also eat chimps from rival troups.

(not the greatest idea for survival of the species)

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Originally posted by miko2d
Oh, yeah - chimpansees regularly rape their females while their close relatives bonobos don't.

Both kill and eat orangutangs - which look pretty much like those two species but apparently distinguisheable enough not to be suitable for fraternising or even rape.

miko

midnight Target · « **Reply #71 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:11:50 PM »

Nice of you to try and minimalize my post by claiming everything I do has race attached... wrong but nice just the same.

Irrational behavior caused by someones mindset towards a gender or a race or a female cat is irrelevent, and it is a stupid reason to eliminate the opportunity that someone of any race, gender or ..... cat.... might have to become whatever they might aspire to be.

Lazs... 35 years ago people were saying the same thing about female business managers! "It's just not natural"....

Kanth · « **Reply #72 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:12:20 PM »

I will never say put someone who isn't up to the job, in, to do the job based on gender.

on the other hand I will also not say, exclude someone who is up to the job for the same reason.

neither get the job done in the best possible way.

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Originally posted by narsus
Never said it was Kanth, the point I am making is put a woman in hand to hand combat with an equally trained man and the woman will loose a large percentage of the time.

Would a woman loose all the time of course not, but saying that "women" on average have the same strength as men is false hence they are not equal in combat ability.

Women make excellent fighter pilots due to being able to take more G's (heart is closer to the head than men). Fine great be a fighter pilot, but puting women who can't lift the exact same weight as men on "average" of course should not be on the front lines.

quoting you

I couldn't agree more.

midnight Target · « **Reply #73 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:14:16 PM »

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Originally posted by miko2d
Oh, yeah - chimpansees regularly rape their females while their close relatives bonobos don't.

Both kill and eat orangutangs - which look pretty much like those two species but apparently distinguisheable enough not to be suitable for fraternising or even rape.

miko

miko...

quick, tell me where bonobo's, chimps and orangutans coexist in nature..... 5 seconds!!!

miko2d · « **Reply #74 on:** March 27, 2003, 03:17:31 PM »

I am not sure - in the documentary that showed a bunch of chimpansees eating a freshly-killed orangutan I could not quite get the nearest street intersection.

Some kind of a forest, I believe...

miko