AWDOS.....what was the mystique?

[-lazs-]

when i started it had gone to 2 bucks an hour.  I don't know what version it was and I don't have the software but I do have the floppies of the first 500 or so kills I made..  I used to watch em in the morning with coffee and i really missed that when I went to WB.   I also recall that... besides not having many (any?) dipshits like eye... It had no killshooter... when someone shot down a countryman... the would apolodgize profusely!   try to have an online sim these days without killshooter.
lazs

[Hajo]

just started playing aw after it went to windows format.  best thing was community, friends and foes alike seemed to have respect for one another.  also, was the only game in town.  Not much trash talking, just flying and having fun.  first real flight sim on-line and we all loved it.  Learned to fly at B85 <G>
aw3 was allowed to stagnate, no further developments but changes in maps.  hit bubbles etc and flight modeling were changed for a short time, but a howl came up through the community about the hit bubble, then back to same old thing.  Flight modeling was at best marginal, and planes like the P51 and P47 were left in their hangars.  Head ons from the PJ were rediculous, and a B-17 out turning a spit at 24K ruined the game.  But the friends we all made playing aw will last forever.  I still keep in touch with my old squaddies.  and enjoyed the 2000 con at indy.

[J_A_B]

Actually, I always thought Aces High felt a lot like AirWarrior DOS.

The planeset is similar (mid-late 1944)

The community is small enough where everyone can get to know each other.

There is a limited number of planes, but a good prospect for new ones to be added/modified.

HTC and Kesmai both payed attention to what happened in the game, and modified it accordingly (but HTC is better).

It has that same "new" feeling.

The main differences, IMO, are the "killshooter" and the use of a single arena for all planes, rather than a euro-pac arena rotation.

And the trashtalking--but that isn't common only to AH.  It is becomming more common across the board (not a good sign).

Oh yeah....and no SCAVENGER  <sob>

J_A_B

[Snoopi]

   

Originally posted by Wardog:
Snoopi

AW DOS came out in 1986 with a CGA Front End.It was the 1st online air combat sim.

then AW4W, AW2, AW3. All of them use the outdated AW DOS FM, Damage modeling and ballistic. Out of all the AW programs, AW DOS was the best for me..


Dog out..

Yup I knew that.
Sorry my post sucked.

I meant to say the 1st online combat flight sim I tried was AW2.
Before that I flew only offline..starting with Sublogic's Flight Simulator on a 5.25" single sided floppy.
I bought it in 1978 for my Apple II If my memory is right  

lol man that was a long time ago.

Just realized it may have been on my TRS-80
which I had before the Apple II.

Anyone have a better memory ?


[This message has been edited by Snoopi (edited 10-23-2000).]

[Westy]

 I found this and though it might be a nice trip down memory lane for many of you. I never flew AW DOS. Heck, I only "found" AW in 92 or 93 and then I never had any means to connect online so what little I did was offline. Same with the original CK/WB's.  
 Anyway...as your name is called out, please step forward and be recognized.....  

 -Westy

=================================

Category 6,  Topic 16
Message 269       Sat Jan 30, 1993
MSMILLER [DoKtOr GoNzO]      at 16:32 EST
 
 OK lookit ... I wanted to stay out of this damn RT for a while and get
 back to normal life but this is nuts. I lost track of what all was
 decided about numbers of inductees as I scrolled through all this mess,
 but until we clean up ancient history the HoF simply won't have any
 context for who's in and who's out.

 I break the people who should go in into three tiers. The first are the
 people who really stood out - "legendary" if you will. The second who are
 people who made contributions beyond that of being an individual or just
 plain stood out for some reason. The third tier are the aces of old who
 were just damn good at what they did. This list will ruffle a few feathers
 - like I give a crap. I will provide justification for the names I list as
 I go. Some of the comments will surprise people. Rest assured - I still
 hate you all quite vehemently. Again - this is mainly folks from the early
 days, people like Fencer and Grok and all are a different era - or I just
 don't recall them from the first couple years of the game.

 In no particular order ...

 First Tier
 ==========

 Airmigan - A consistantly great player. Good at everything, always a
 threat, always makes positive contributions in RT, fun to fly with.

 Tango Circus - The best dogfighter ever. Period. First to break 1600 ELO
 (when you could still see people's plane #'s), won a pile of campaigns,
 brought taunting to an art form ("Yooooooo hooooooo", "OiNk!", etc.).
 Many people flew just to try and kill him. Probably the only person
 better in an F/A-26 than me.

 Biggles - I won't say anything here except he should go in before half
 the other people I've seen nominated.

 Flush Garden - The first to really drive energy tactics home. Contributed
 numerous help files ("Flush Garden's Goodies") which were very popular in
 their day. An unstoppable fighter-bomber pilot. Introduced "HAR!" to the
 AW vernacular. An almost telepathic wingman - you didn't need a radio
 when you were up with Flush.

 Garos - Map-maker to the stars. Probably the first guy to really make
 bombers his life in AW. Had a very high mission success rate. Was also a
 none-too-shabby fighter pilot (or F/B-25 pilot).

 Cap'n Trips - Living proof of "Better killing through chemistry."
 Probably one of the ten best ever dogfighters. First to introduce people
 to the joys of Zekes on the deck. Author of most of the time-travelling
 shenanigans of the early days. An amazing online personality who pushed
 the envelope of "what is possible" - much to Kelton's dismay.

 Anvil - OK, he works for Kesmai now. Big deal. Anvil was one of the few
 people the 4Q had any respect for in the air (some compliment, huh?).
 Like Air, Anvil was good at everything. Also had an impact on training
 and was one of the better CO's and individual performers in scenarios.
 Hides his Dark Side well. Liked beta testing AW so much - he joined the
 company.

 Blue Macs - One of the masters of the P38 - almost unbeatable in it. Also
 did some of the best ever Mac artwork (you think you're looking at a page
 out of "The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes") much of which is still in use
 today.

 Etoile - One of the few people to adopt the Fw before it became so
 popular. Endured countless deaths at the hands of more experienced
 players but simply would not quit. Ended up building one of the top
 squads the game ever saw at a point in time where B and C land were
 fielding some of the strongest talent around.

 Vermin - One of the top 10 wingmen ever to play. Savagely deadly in a Fw.
 Living proof that alcohol and flying _do_ mix. A constant threat in the
 air and in the RT. Responsible for adding "two weeks" to the GEnie
 vernacular. One of the truly unique personalities in the game - a death
 threat is merely Verm's way of saying "howdy."

 Mullah - Caught the tail end of the old, old days - Mul is in the same
 class as everyone else I listed here. Good at everything, a great touch
 for posting nastigrams in the RT, has received enough hate mail from
 CLODs and SysOafs to be a 4Q. Plus, Mul set the standard for AW
 convention accomodations and one of the more effective online personas.

 Vyper/Ghost Rider - Before he was GR, we all knew him as Vyper. GR has
 been damn good for a long time and eventually formed a his DFA squad
 after bouncing around C-land for a long damn time. A dominant personality
 in the game. I think GR has the highest ELO every recorded as well.

 Second Tier
 ===========

 Nick Bigrod - The top ace for much of the early going. A very cautious
 flyer back before anyone was very cautious.

 715 - This dude belongs if for no other reason than he has survived so
 long and adapted to all the changes he's seen.

 Illwind - A very good flyer who, like many old fartz, just plays goofy
 now. Illwind also contributed some awesome Amiga art (so I've been
 told - I'm on a Mac, so have never seen it).

 Sloth - Has made contributions in so many ways but I still place Garos a
 bit higher in the pecking order of in-air threats for mud-masher types
 (sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em).

 STUser - For doing the 1st AW Convention, lots of RT and other
 contributions, and being a generally likeable dweeb. Budman was a better
 pilot, but STUser was much more of a presence. (Besides, Bud probably
 hasn't had reason to hate me in a while - this should do it.)

 Lady In Red - The first lady to play the game - the premiere bomber
 gunner. I have yet to see anyone better. I remember when she first
 started playing - you could almost smell the glandular action of all the
 repressed male dweebs out there. Became a semi-decent pilot despite some
 initial "help" from DB.

 Lufberry - For a dweeb, he did start the first large super-organized
 squad in the game. Until the GF's, squads were much more like
 fraternities - or gangs in some cases - like the 4Q. The GF's changed
 that and squads became quite serious business for a while there.

 Pursuader - Led the first all-bomber squadron in the game (as far as I
 can recall, at least). For a while the 99th had an incredible impact on
 how all countries operated since it proved that an effective bomber squad
 was a points factory.

 RidgeRunner - RR was the man to beat in the first 3 or 4 months of the
 game. Did some great Mac artwork. Don't matter that he's with Kesmai now
 (or that he too hates me), he was a player first.

 Ptero - Started the Damned - probably the first large successful squad to
 come out of C-land since the 4Q. What is impressive about this was that
 he formed the squad while the 4Q, FC, and JV-44 were all still strong
 squads on the opposing countries.

 Volstag - gotta have him. The 'Stag seems to have been around forever and
 is one of the more colorful people in the game. If he ever took this game
 serious, he'd win campaigns and stuff - and have to kick himself out of
 his own squad.

 Third Tier
 ==========

 Shoestring, Pax, Sub Commander Tau, LT-X - Some of the best dogfighters
 from the early days. Tau was killer in WW1. Shoe was one of the best ever
 stallfighters. LT-X was obnoxious enough to be a 4Q, but didn't stick
 around long enough to accept The Dark Side. Pax was just plain good.

 Leon, Col. Hugmuk - Two of the best high-altitude threats ever.

 Topper, Undead Fred, Bader, Last Dance, Cap'n Bludd, Quagmire, Dave,
 Hannibal - Great dogfighters - the kind of folks you check to see if
 they're online before you take off.

 JW - One of the more vocal GF's (the orginal GF's). A very good
 low-altitude dogfighter. Introduced ELO scoring to the AW universe -
 which could make him to the only person to be elected to both the Hall of
 Fame and the Hall of Shame.

 ----------

 Now, I'm sure I left a few people out from the first couple years. I put
 this list together last nite from memory while I was out on the town (or as
 close as it gets here in Scummyvale).

 So will you people do this right already so I don't have to keep reading
 this crap.

  -DoK
 ------------

[Ice]

Where on earth did you find this and is there more?

Ice

[OTTO 111th Fighter Group]

 When I started playing all I saw were 'gray' aircraft with stick bodies, and I loved it!.  I didn't know that if you could free an unbeliveiable 8k of memory you'd see the art work  
  I used to love the A-26. 'Sniff.....'

Otto 2719
 

------------------
Otto CO
111th Fighter Group

[Westy]

 Ice, I've got about 3 meg of the old Genie boards from 92-93. It's all text. I can zip it up and forward it on from work tommorow if you're interested. "Holmes" had saved it and posted it up on his webs ite for a few years. I grabbed the two files from his there before it disappeared about a year ago.

 -Westy

[jedi]

Hehe DOS AW was the "Mother Country."

You felt like you were part of a secret society, you KNEW you were flying the best computer flight model available (a scary thought now, but unquestionably true then), and you also KNEW you could clean the clock of pretty much anyone whose main claim-to-fame was that they could win all the missions in Aces of the Pacific    And at the same time you knew that even being better than 99% of the guys who were "good at flight sims" put you no higher than "average" in the ranks of the guys you were fighting.  

The bulletin boards were about 60% tips, tweaks, and actual discussion of the subject of air combat, 20% humor (and there were some masters at it) and only 20% of the antagonism that constitutes, oh, 80% on the boards nowadays.  And of course you had to practically be a rocket scientist to even FIND the boards in the first place.  Aladdin, hehehe  

Beyond that, it's kinda hard to actually explain it.  I know I liked the idea of being part of something that was definitely NOT "trendy" but was a heckuva a lot cooler than almost everything that WAS.

"Air Warrior"--the name kinda captures the essence of it.  



------------------

[Ripsnort]

Jedi:"You felt like you were part of a secret society, you KNEW you were flying the best computer flight model available"

Kinda like that  way on AGW now ain't it?

<G,D,R>

[Ice]

Westy...

Send away....I'de like to take a trip back in time if ya don't mind  

Thanks

Ice

ohw@swbell.net

[This message has been edited by Ice (edited 10-25-2000).]

[jedi]

Once again Rip, in his never-ending quest to promote flightsim community harmony, drags the WB-AH "feud" into someplace it has no business being  

Now back to our trip down memory lane...



------------------

[Westy]

 On it's way already ICE. And here is something a little more modern, about two years old, from Jonathan "BB" or "Blue" Baron. You see? Up to about a year or two ago you old AW DOS folks were like Cod's to many of us newer people. We sort of being like sports enthusiasts and learning about the stars of the various teams from the olden days. So we asked alot of questions of those who had "been there and done that"     Sorry to say these days most of the minions in AW are clueless to the heritage beyond AOL in 1995-96. Maybe it's just as well...

=======================

> Please excuse my ignorance of the early days of AW,
> but could some of  you Vets do your best to fill me in on how
> those days were in comparison to now? ....


 Having seen the game develop over more than ten years I understand the
temptation to anoint earlier eras as "the good old days" or "the golden age"
of this or that.  My view is not so sentimental, though.

In the early days online gaming was text based.  Air Warrior was the first
online game that was fully graphical.  Yes, other games had graphical
interfaces (usually developed by the players), but they simply overlaid the
text based system.  Sometimes we'd develop graphical interfaces for our text
games (Stellar Emperor for example), but most veterans stuck with their
terminal emulators.  Air Warrior was different in this, and so many aspects,
but it arrived in absolute obscurity.  What gaming press there was had no
clue about this esoteric pastime.  Very few people were online.  Thus part
of what made Air Warrior seem so special back then is that we all knew that
we were onto something, years before anyone else was.

But that was really a very small part.  It wasn't just that we were
discovering something before the masses did, it was that there were so few
of us - no more than 10 or 20 souls each night - and thus we got to know one
another very well indeed.  You could tell, just from the behavior of a dot
far away, who everyone was.  New players were rare, and the development of
relationships among players was a long, evolving process.

The fundamental change to the game took place in the winter of '92, with the
release of SVGA AW.  At the '92 Con that year in Los Angeles, veterans were
already bemoaning the loss of their game.  "We won't matter anymore," one of
them said in an unguarded moment.  "But we'll be like gods to them!" I said,
kidding.  All of us knew better.

For a box game market, completely unfamiliar with any concept of anything
having come before the moment they ripped the shrink wrap off their shinny
new game boxes, the very notion of a tradition in computer gaming, much less
one that spanned years, was alien.  One customer even accused me of making
up the quotes from players that I put in the manual.  Another asked me why
the hell did I think he'd be interested in stuff said by guys he never saw
up in the game.  Although it hadn't happened overnight, the new guard
displaced the old.  Many of us thought it would be fun to kill the "ten
THOUsand dweebs" but it lost its charm quickly, and the social dynamics of
the arena had been forever altered.

SVGA AW was the first box sim to model departure from controlled flight, but
we didn't offer this feature online.  So called realism was not all the rage
back then.  Computer Gaming World, in their review said, "With its realistic
flight model, Air Warrior is not an adventure, it's a job."  Thus Kesmai was
reluctant to enable it online.  The vocal players - the ones posting on the
GEnie BBS - started the chant, "Throw the switch!"  Meanwhile Kelton created
a separate development: the real time packet.  Previously, Air Warrior had
run at half speed, even though your gauges showed full speed.  This was a
concession to networks of the day.  Real time added another "realism"
factor, separating further the game play of earlier and later AW.  When they
finally added a full realism arena, they did something inexplicable - they
ran it in half time, but added half time rolls.   The reasoning was odd.
One way Air Warrior disguised the fact that it was running in half time was
by having aircraft roll in real time.  In the realism arena, the thinking
was that everything should be realistic.  Thus the roll rate should match
the overall time scale.  This made the realism arena anything but realistic.

Finally all the screamers got what they asked for - real time, full
realism.  The majority stayed in half time.  The community, already altered
by the box release, was now split in two.  Squads split up over this, and
many old timers still hanging on left the game.

It's difficult to second guess all of this.  Air Warrior had been a
financial loser.  Kesmai made its money from other games.  The game had to
reach out to a larger audience, or die.  By reaching out, in a sense it died
as well.

Yet, if you paid attention you saw that the game was anything but dead.  New
players made dumb mistakes, got better, made friends, developed rivalries,
formed squadrons, and got to know people that they otherwise never would
have.  They found kindred spirits, people to "hate," people to respect, and
people to miss when they were gone.  These are constants to this game.  When
we moved it to AOL - again out of pure survival - the cycle repeated.  Same
for GS, same for AWII, AWIII.

None of us has any idea when we're fooling around in the simulated skies
just how important the relationships we're developing are.  The bonds we
develop with one another happen insidiously and, despite all the explosions
going on around us in the game, quietly.  None of  us has any idea just how
much we'll miss those guys we flew with after they're gone.  The human heart
can't tell the difference between virtual and face to fact worlds.  Shared
emotion bonds people, no matter where or how that emotion takes place.

Thus, there is only one golden age - the time when YOU first learned the
game, and played it for long hours every day or every week.  Each of us has
his own good old days.  And for each, they were just as good.

And for the so-called veteran who complains to me how my latest release
killed the game he loved, I can say, "Yes, and you killed the game I loved.
You and your kind chased away all my buddies seven years ago."  In both
cases the accusation is unfair.  That's another thing all players from all
eras share: the good old days can never last forever.  Enjoy yours while you
have them.  Remember them fondly when they're over.  In either case you are
experiencing or have experienced something evermore rare in this world.

        BB    ( aka Jonathan Baron)


[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-25-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by jedi:
Once again Rip, in his never-ending quest to promote flightsim community harmony, drags the WB-AH "feud" into someplace it has no business being  

You've been quite a contributor as well young Jedi.  

[Westy]

Rips,

I am going to SNIPER YOU!   :|

-Westy