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Author Topic: Three Destroyed Abrams  (Read 2035 times)

Offline Dowding

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« on: March 30, 2003, 02:42:43 AM »
Anybody see the footage?

There was significant damage to the armour; they had been clearly immobilzed and the crews had abandoned them. One was on fire. Can an RPG knock out an Abram, or are we seeing Kornet Es?
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Offline Martlet

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Re: Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2003, 02:56:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Anybody see the footage?

There was significant damage to the armour; they had been clearly immobilzed and the crews had abandoned them. One was on fire. Can an RPG knock out an Abram, or are we seeing Kornet Es?


2 Abrams and a Bradley.  They were incapacitated, and the crews tried to destroy them before they were abandonded.  Enough RPG shots to the grill will take them out.
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Offline Dowding

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2003, 02:59:34 AM »
Like I said, they were immobilized.

As for for where they were hit, there was one with a side hit, almost dead centre. The armour was peeled back to a considerable degree.
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Offline Martlet

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2003, 03:09:56 AM »
There were hits all over, but those weren't what took the them out.  According to the sources I've read, both Abrams were immobilized with multiple shots to the grill.  Not that I'm a tank driver.
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Offline akak

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2003, 04:31:05 AM »
Those were the two tanks that got hit in the engine area by truck mounted kornets.  Think the Bradley took one too.


ack-ack
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Offline Dowding

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2003, 04:38:19 AM »
I've seen 3 Abrams in that footage, just shown on the BBC. They are definitely unique tanks. One is in a ditch with no descernible damage, another has the armour peeled back on the side and is on fire in the front corner and the last one had consideralble frontal damage but the sides were intact. Not neccessarily the same engagement, of course, but the landscape looked very similar in all shots.
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Offline Boroda

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Re: Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2003, 06:44:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Anybody see the footage?

There was significant damage to the armour; they had been clearly immobilzed and the crews had abandoned them. One was on fire. Can an RPG knock out an Abram, or are we seeing Kornet Es?


According to Soviet Army Field Regulations - RPGs are used mostly to "finish" immobilized tanks...

I don't know about modern disposable RPG-21, but RPG-7 (what defenders probably have) is definetly unable to make serious damage to Abrams.

IMHO that tanks look like they were damaged on landmines or were abandoned after mechanical malfunctions.
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Offline Martlet

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2003, 09:33:33 AM »
The tanks were hit by mortar fire, also.
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Offline GrimCO

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2003, 09:47:25 AM »
U.S. tanks have depleted Uranium "reactive" armor. In essence, the armor explodes outward as the incoming round explodes inward, cancelling the force of the blow. The armor is divided into sections or plates. Once one section is hit, it's reactive capability is spent. If it gets hit again in the same area by an RPG or a mortar, damage will be done.

Let's remember fellas, this is a war. People and vehicles will be lost... However, if you take a tally of coalition losses vs. enemy losses, I think there's a clear picture being painted here...  Saddam's days are numbered.
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Offline ZOSO

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2003, 09:54:48 AM »
Reactive armor is not something built in to the armor on M1 tanks.  If you see lots of little boxes on a tank, that's reactive armor.  If you don't see those little boxes, there's no reactive armor.  Look for pics of marine M-60s a few years back and you should find what I'm talking about.  I've never seen them fitted to M1s.

I don't mean to be harsh, but we have enough "experts" misinforming the public about weapon capabilities on TV, let's try to be sure we know what we're talking about OK?

edit:  LOL who am I kidding, this is the O' Club.  :)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2003, 10:01:47 AM by ZOSO »
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Offline Boroda

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2003, 10:04:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GrimCO
U.S. tanks have depleted Uranium "reactive" armor. In essence, the armor explodes outward as the incoming round explodes inward, cancelling the force of the blow. The armor is divided into sections or plates. Once one section is hit, it's reactive capability is spent. If it gets hit again in the same area by an RPG or a mortar, damage will be done.


I can tell you several ways to penetrate "active protection". There are no things that can't be broken, damaged or blown up. More to say, since early 80s Soviet antitank weapons are designed to deal with active armour. Back in college in 91 we calculated possible weapon effectiveness against it. It was on 2nd year of education.

IIRC "dynamic" armour in the US first was introduced on M1A3. It is called "integrated", but it can be removed. On Soviet tanks it can be seen easily, little boxes that cover armour and look like "crocodile skin".
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Offline Boroda

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2003, 10:05:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ZOSO
Reactive armor is not something built in to the armor on M1 tanks.  If you see lots of little boxes on a tank, that's reactive armor.  If you don't see those little boxes, there's no reactive armor.  Look for pics of marine M-60s a few years back and you should find what I'm talking about.  I've never seen them fitted to M1s.


M1s have active armour "built in", but I still don't understand how it is done. Maybe integrated into that flat streens?
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Offline GrimCO

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2003, 10:06:18 AM »
ZOSO,

I suggest you check out this website detailing the armor of the M1A1 tank. They ALL have this reactive armor...

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/index.html
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Offline ZOSO

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2003, 10:14:51 AM »
I served on M1s for four years.  M1 tanks do not have reactive armor.  Nowhere in that article does it say that they do.  I think maybe you're confused about the blow out panels they talk about which is something completely different.  If the ammo compartment is hit, the panels above the compartment blow off allowing the explosion to go out the top of the turret rather than into it.  That's not reactive armor.

This was all I was able to come up with as far as pics.  It's only a model, but you get the idea.  Those little tiles around the turret are the reactive armor.

http://www.cueballweb.com/~worktop/reviews/m60_turret_assembly.html
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Offline Martlet

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Three Destroyed Abrams
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2003, 10:16:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I can tell you several ways to penetrate "active protection". There are no things that can't be broken, damaged or blown up. More to say, since early 80s Soviet antitank weapons are designed to deal with active armour. Back in college in 91 we calculated possible weapon effectiveness against it. It was on 2nd year of education.

IIRC "dynamic" armour in the US first was introduced on M1A3. It is called "integrated", but it can be removed. On Soviet tanks it can be seen easily, little boxes that cover armour and look like "crocodile skin".


Is there a topic you don't consider yourself to be the leading expert in?
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